We pro-toughness Rangers fans have been begging for some sandpaper in the lineup all season. And last Saturday we finally got our wish in the form of Dan Carcillo.
Is he the perfect solution? Not even close. But beggers can't be choosers.
Unfortunately, the addition of Carcillo likely means the subtraction of promising rookie JT Miller.
Since Miller's recall on December 19th he has just 1g, 1a, however, stats can be deceiving. He not only brought immediate stability to a struggling lineup, but his presence between Beniot Pouliot and Carl Hagelin seemed to jump start both of the speedy wingers' seasons. The Rangers are also 5-2-1 in the seven games Miller has suited up in since being summoned from Hartford.
As Alain Vigneault has recently said about Miller, it seems as though he's getting caught up in a numbers game. Even before the Carcillo acquisition, he was the odd man out when Ryan Callahan returned from a knee injury.
An injury to Derek Dorsett re-opened the door for Miller, but it seems to have quickly shut again upon the arrival of the former Flyer tough guy.
Vigneault addressed Miller's future before the forward was a healthy scratch for Wednesday night's win in Chicago (via Bergen Record)...
"The more I see that young player, I see that potential. If he keeps improving, there's a chance that, someday, he'll become a real effective player."
...Potential. A chance. Someday. Those are probably words Miller doesn't want to hear and likely means a trip back to Hartford in the very near future.
...it's a shame that AV can't find a spot for Miller in the lineup, but I'm guessing depth is a problem the head coach welcomes. I've recently floated Richards' name as a possible candidate to sit for Miller, but with the way the Rangers power play has been producing it'd be counter-productive to remove him from the lineup.
...i'm assuming Boyle and Moore are options but their work on faceoffs and the penalty kill likely keeps them in lineup.
Which brings us back to Carcillo and what he brings to the lineup. Here's Vigneault before the newest Ranger's debut in Chicago (via Bergen Record)...
"I see Dan bringing a lot of energy. Sometimes you need those tempo, momentum shifts during the game, where a guy goes out and gets a couple of big hits and brings a lot of energy."
...while Carcillo played an integral part in the Rangers victory Wednesday night as Zuccarello's first period power play goal was the direct result of a penalty he drew, the 29-year old forward was fairly non-existent for the remainder of the game. In fact, I thought the Rangers second period lull offered him the perfect opportunity to provide a spark which he unfortunately either passed on or isn't capable of performing.
...when the Rangers initially obtained Carcillo, I was concerned about him not knowing the line between being effective and a liability, but the more research I've done on him, I'm finding out that I should probably be more worried about him not being enough of a nuisance. Apparently, the knee injuries that befell him in Chicago combined with his numerous suspensions have transformed him into Carcillo light. Gone are the days of him being a meathead on skates. Instead, cautiousness is said to be the name of his game. If he's not willing or able to mix it up, Sather has essentially signed another Arron Asham. Let's hope a return to the Eastern Conference rekindles some of that nastiness we all remember.
...if not, our angst about Miller being placed in NHL perpetuity will likely be over very quickly.
Carcillo is better in that spot than Miller. Carcillo knows his role and has been in the NHL a long time.
5+2+1 = 8. ;)
I vote Carcillo, but I also think he needs to play. Give him a real chance to have an impact. If he can't, back to Miller.
We need his grit or we need someone with grit. It is odd, a team that has played very poorly this year, has depth issues. Why not sit one hot-shot every game. Let them remember what it was like to want to play in NHL. We need a Carcillo or McIlrath on the bench EVERY GAME. Believe it or not, I love the RANGERS, they are just driving me insane with their erratic play. LGR Beat Stars because YOU CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!
Carcillo need protection and show of force u guys can complain about him all you want but bottom line is wehave enough scorers starting to.come around
Putting miller on fourth line for even 10-12 mins a game does HIS game no good
Send him to Hartford work on face offs, p- killing, and getting his big body in front if the net and then and only then we don't need Boyle and Stepan will look over his shoulder and maybe pick up his game
No brainer Carcillo
That's what everyone on the blog has been screaming for including myself
But on the other hand miller has done well
He is in the same shoes as Krieder last year
And now look at him he is not perfect yet
But he has a lot of raw talent still but has learned a bunch and still has a ton of untapped potential
Miller needs to learn how to play like a mix between Wilson of the caps and Krieder and when that happens he will never see Connecticut again
So once again Carcillo
And next year miller rookie of the year
Carcillo on a game by game basis (depending on opponent's lineup and going forward how he plays). But if he is only going to play 5-6 minutes a night play Miller. He is a better hockey player than Carcillo and underrated physically.
Carcillo and it pains me to say that. However, we need toughness and grittiness on this team and you never know when he will have to answer the bell. Sure, Philadelphia is a sure bet, but things can happen in the other games, too. Bottom line: the Rangers have plenty of scoring and playmaking potential. Miller wouldn't add that much either way. Our best players have to be our best players and, in order to do that, they need to know that someone has their backs. Hopefully, that "someone" is Carcillo. To me, it's a no brainer.
For the most part, we all agree this team needs some grit. Unfortunately, having a few guys like Lucic in our lineup isn't going to happen anytime soon. We need to do the next best thing and at minimum dress an enforcer type guy (Carcillo) every night. Would I prefer a Prust or McGrattan as an enforcer, yeah sure, but we don't have that either. Carcillo is what we have at the moment, we need to utilize him.
I just don't see the Carcillo v Miller argument for a spot in the lineup. In my opinion, the enforcer/tough guy role should be its own spot on this team period, meaning that there should always be one spot in the lineup available night in and night out for Dorsett/Carcillo/Haley. No way JT takes their roster spot. If anything we should be discussing JT v D Moore.
Besides being punched in the face for existing, I don't think Carcillo did a single thing in his first game. I would much rather have Miller. As I recall, Carcillo is an awful fighter anyway. The only guy he could beat is Marian Gaborik, and only because he threw six punches before Gabby knew what was going on.
The bottom line is that you sign a guy for the sole purpose of adding grit and toughness to a lineup that has virtually none, he has to play!!! A change of scenerycan be a good thing for a guy like Carcillo. Can anybody say "Clean Slate" Put him in the lineup and let him do his thing. As long as his antics dont hurt the team penalty wise, I am all for it. Teams take notice of guys like Carcillo and think twice about running the top guys on a hockey team like it has been done to us all freakin year!!!!!
He's good enough to play in the NHL, but he's not bringing enough to the table to deserve more than bottom-6 minutes and not worthy of special team play yet. Send him to HFD
Here are some talking points.... We have some under achieving players that are being paid to perform....Excluding players with injuries.. or past injures that hold em back.....
We need to change the complacent players attitude. As so referenced... that AV won't sit down. Stepan OR Richards... and there lies the problem.... it doesn't happen because of contracts. Ego. Whatever... the worst is the attitude of the fan....We should demand that..
Stepan has literally been a ghost... held out requesting star money and he isn't one... We the fans especially on this board over hype or over value this chump...why? If he isn't scoring point every night ir every other night he contributes next to nothing. Sit his non producing ass till he gets inspired to come to work everyday.. not just show up
We have alot of chips to trade and package and get hard working players and performers
Hagelin - inconsistent. ...had speed. Teams drool over him
Boyle- good face off guy and penalty killer
D MOORE - face off guy and kills penalties... and can chip in some goals
STEPAN- WOULD GET US MORE in RETURN THAN brassard would....
Pouliot has shown life on the PP
I don't fall in love with players. End of the day. It's about winning and championships. ..And the players that bring them. So yeah I love Graves Messier. A guy like Gretzky.... they get it done and all have multiple rings
I would personally have 4th line playing 12-13 minutes with Miller, then 7-8 with Carcillo, if it's not Boston or Philies we play against
Miller over carcillo every day of the week and twice on Sunday... Come on Kevin. He should be on the third line as well.
Dave Bradley, Agreed. I'm not giving up on Carcillo. If he can provide that toughness, I'll absolutely take him over Miller.
Of course but it was only one game. He drew a penalty wh ich led to a goal. And he didn't do anything stupid in a tight game. I agree with sitting Moore.
The problem with sitting Richards or Stepan, which will never happen, but even if AV considered it, is that it would be a temporary wake-up call. One, maybe two games at most. Miller would still be just a temporary plug, he would never steal a starting spot from one of those two. So I think it does him more good to be playing bigger minutes in Hartford. If they can get him exposed to PP and PK work in Hartford, then I think he's got a real shot to be our 3rd Line Center out of camp next year when they buy out Richards and/or if they trade Brassard's rights or just let him walk. Not only is our quantity of forwards hurting him, but our quantity of centers, too. We're routinely playing Brassard, Richards, and/or Boyle in winger positions, and Miller clearly has played better at center than wing.
I'll choose to look at AV's quote is a glass half-full kind of manner: Right now the kid is a 3rd/4th line player for us, who chips in the occasional goal, doesn't add to PP or PK. In the next 2-3 years if he develops correctly, he could move into a permanent 3rd line spot, or eventually even a 2nd line spot, where he becomes relied on to produce. I think he will get there, but he won't progress being a spare forward for for the big team.
Still surprised that they opted to waive Pyatt if Miller wasn't going to be a permanent fixture. Hate on Pyatt all you want, but he was an ideal spare forward. Your spare players should be seasoned guys who can step in occasionally, but have maxed out their potential. That's not Miller.
As far as Carcillo was concerned, I was extremely unimpressed. I know he's new, but he seemed to bring little to the table. But if every Eastern Conference team has one player who's been waiting to jab him in the face and give us a PP, then I guess he'll do for now.
vs Dallas? Miller.....vs. Flyers on Sunday night Carcillo (God can't help it but I hate that he's a Ranger)
I want Irish Carbomb in there for sure. Miller hasn't played consistently enough this entire season. Carcillo drew a penalty against Chicago and can play a steady physical game as long as he's getting under 10 minutes a night on the fourth line. I'd leave him in. Why mess with what worked against Chicago?
@TheNYRBlog Carcillo. Need some toughness. Not impressed with Miller. He just needs to stay planted in the AHL and get his minutes.
I have no problem with Miller being a shuttle player and called up when needed. Someone will go down and I'd rather have him ready to step in then. I also see him being a major player once the Olympics are over and some of the Olympian guys need some days off.
Sorry, I can't get past that quote from AV about Miller. Maybe the way he said it isn't as bad as the way it looks in print, but it sure doesn't seem like AV thinks very highly of JT's game or potential. "IF he keeps improving, there's a CHANCE that, SOMEDAY, he'll become a real EFFECTIVE player." Yikes. With comments like that from the head coach, I wonder if Miller becomes a trade piece vs. a regular on the big club. (And folks complained about Torts not giving prospects a chance.)
@TheNYRBlog Carcillo is actually a Star Trek red shirt. Introduced, and in short order he will be killed off (we hope) (not LITERALLY).
@TheNYRBlog One guy isn't gonna change team toughness. It has to be a team identity. Miller isnt quite ready. Carcillo is a stop gap.
Signing Carcillo was a low risk move. If he ends up being Carcillo light, NYR let him walk after the season is over, and he's making under 1m currently. Still way better than the Donald Brashear experiment.
@TheNYRBlog miller only if he is getting real minutes. 4th line will do nothing for him. Don't care for never did care for Carcillo
Dorsett shoould be on the 3rd line.... just to hound people
4th line of. Haley and carcullo.....As wingers..
That's a line up with some edge and toughness.
Everyone forgets how good Haley plays in the playoffs for us... He was a one man wrecking crew hitting everyone. Breakaeays.... keep that kid. At all cost
CHECK OUT CARCILLO VS SHAWN THORTON OR CARCILLO VS TODD BERTUZZI, BUT FOR A REAL KICK CHECK OUT CARCILLO VS DORSETT.LGR!
Remember it was his first game and against a team that might be softer than us
Plus half the guys whom have played all year still do not have AV's system Down as of yet
Please everyone yells for toughness and we get it and you still bitch about it
It's like my 6 yr old at Xmas
Wait till we play the flyers, devils, islanders or Caps then if he plays like that ill apologize
Miller over Boyle and DMoore. All day everyday.....
they don't bring what Carcillo or Dorsett bring. We need diversity and toughness no matter who we play....
If u gonna say consistance... sit Stepan. Guys shows up every 10 games or when we are winning by 3 goals
@DenialGWolfThat's a great point about the Olympics.
@rangermomMiller should reply with the following:
"IF the team keeps improving and winning games, there's a CHANCE that AV MIGHT be viewed as an OK coach in the NHL"
@rangermomFelt the same way about that quote.
@ttabasco13 wont make a big deal of 4th line thing. Av rolls four lines evenly unlike tort.
You sit Boyle and D Moore then who do you send out there to win a key defensive zone faceoff?? Richards, Brassard and Stepan all suck on faceoffs
@KreiOfTheTiger I think he needs to be deployed in a manner in which he can use his offensive talents.
Dorsett comes back sit them both Boyle and DMoore or trade one... they have value.... let Miller learn to take face offs....
If Stepan doesn't get his shit together. Sit his non winning face off ass in the press box. I still can't understand not puck Bobby Ryan over that Clown or even Dubi
I get that ... Was assuming Miller for one of those 2 playing with Carcillo and Dorsett when he comes back. I'm not a big fan of Boyle or D Moore but I agree that we only need one on the ice. I'd rather Boyle over D Moore.
I will answer this way.... u sit either Boyle or DMoore for Miller. That was the point as to u only need to sit 1 guy. And having an already open position that carcillo would fill. .. hence sitting either DMoore or Boyle.. Miller can't play 2 positions......i will respond in detail next time....
@KreiOfTheTiger richards or Stepan (needs a wake up)
@ttabasco13 who u sitting?