Welp, we all knew this was eventually coming and last night it finally came to a head during an episode of TSN's Insider trading as Bob McKenzie reported that the Rangers are determined to trade Ryan Callahan and/or Dan Girardi if they're not signed by the trade deadline.
Darren Dreger added that Callahan is looking for a seven-year deal worth $6 million per year, while Girardi is reportedly seeking a six or seven-year deal in the Jay Bouwmeester range ($5.4 million).
With those contract demands in mind, Dreger adds that Glen Sather has reached out to a number of GMs and he is gauging trade interest on Callahan. Dreger noted that the Rangers appear more confident about their chances of retaining Girardi.
A source has told Pierre LeBrun at ESPN.com that contract talks with Callahan have not gone well at all.
...so, who do you guys think will be wearing the "C" for the Rangers after the trade deadline?
...to be honest, I'm not very shocked by anything I'm hearing. We've been talking about this scenario on the blog all season. Although, seven years?!?!?!?! Not even the most ardent Callahan and Girardi supporters could justify those demands.
...i really do think Sather will be able to negotiate both of them down to five years, which is just enough to be an annoying contract. Similar to Lundqvist getting that seventh year when six would have been perfect.
...i must add that i'm very conflicted with the situation. This past month and a half, the Rangers proved they have just as good a chance as anyone to get through the Eastern Conference. Sure the Penguins are better on paper, but with Fluery in goal, all bets are off. And if you look at the Boston series last year, if the Rangers had any semblence of offense, that series goes seven. By getting rid of Callahan and Girardi, the Rangers are essentially waiving the white flag on the season, because they're not getting established NHL assets in return, so any deals would be for the future. Meaning they would be foregoing what could be a special season.
...on the other hand, if Callahan and Girardi hold Sather's feet to the fire, the Rangers GM will be forced to move them, because giving either or both of them more than a five-year deal isn't an option. In fact, not trading them at the deadline and losing them for nothing via free agency this offseason would be better for the organization's future than giving both long term deals. At least they'd have the cap space to replace them in the offseason.
...listen, I get that ultimately this is a business and it's all about the name on the front of the jersey, not the back, but when you're talking about two home grown guys who helped carry the Rangers out of the abyss of embarassment, you really want to see Sather find a way to keep both of them in a Blueshirt.
...so, what to do? Any chance either of them would settle for a four-year, $16 million deal? Yeah, I didn't think so.
I know there's been a lot of talk about not wanting to let Callahan walk without getting something in return, but I'm not sure that's the only option. There is a possibility that they don't sign him but also don't trade him. If he goes to free agency it opens $4.3MM in cap space next year and doesn't disturb the chemistry that is on the team this year. Unless they can get a true in sniper in return, I don't see them dealing Cally just to get "something" in return. There is no such thing as rebuilding on a NY team, the fans want a potential champion every season, so dealing for picks or another player who won't help the team score doesn't really fit the mold of what is expected from any NY team.
They want 7, they negotiate to 4. Get them done. Trade them or let them go, you lose the identity of the Rangers. And they go back to Torts in Vancouver.
There are alot of comments citing Callahan as a 3rd line winger, i really want to clarify that for people because it's very very miselading. AV's system is conducive to when the team is playing well and within the system he rolls 4 lines in a 1-2-3-4-1-2-3-1 type of way. whereas Torts would go 1-2-1-2-3-1-2-1-2-3-4-1 putting much more pressure on the top 6 whereas AV spreads the time among the top 9 and gets his 4th line 10mn a game vs JT who gave them 3-4mn/game. The top 3 NYR fwds in ice time this year are #1 Brad Richards with 19;07 TOI/gm, #2 is Derek Stepan with 18:32/gm and #3 is Ryan Callahan with 17:54/gm. That pretty much gives him 1st line winger ice time, AV finds it through different avenues i.e. PP, PK, defensive zone faceoffs etc. in fact if you went 1-2-3 4-5-6 7-8-9 to base your lines, your 7-8-9 (3rd line) is actually Hags-Brass-BP being in the bottom 9 of the top 9 fwd minutes. So be careful classifying Callahan as a 3rd liner, just because his line is listed 3rd on the pre-game lineup sheet does not make him a 3rd liner, gentleman, based on icetime, Cally is your #1 RW ahead of Rick Nash. according to TOI, we're getting great value for Richards and at $6m/yr we'd actually get great value out of Cally. Just saying and not trying to be smug, numbers don't lie. Even though AV's system is offensive minded you can only score in the offensive zone, but the offensive zone is only 1/3rd of the entire ice.
Next years cap goes to $71million from $64million this year. We currently are about $2mill under the cap for this year and for 2014-'15 we have $42million locked up which includes Lundqvist (10 players in all) next years RFA's include Krieder, Zucc, Brass and John Moore. You figure $3.5m/each (give or take) for Krieder, Zucc and Brass that brings you to $10.5m add in John Moore who will come in at around $2.5m (im prob overestimating) and you're at $13m which brings you to 14 players $55million. Now to list the UFA's you have Callahan, Boyle, Pouliot Dom Moore and Carcillo on O and Girardi and Stralman on D. Let's play armchair GM for a bit and give Cally $5.5m, bring back Boyle at $2m and Pouilotand Moore $1.5m each. that's an additional $10.5million bringing you to $65.5 million out of $71 million, leaving you $5.5 million to play with. You never want to max out but if Girardi is looking for that $5m Bouwmeister money you give him that, and the odd man out is Stralman. Now if Sather can get creative, i can see them bringing back Stralman, but if you're asking Sather to a) get creative and leave $3-$4m under the cap AFTER signing everbody except Stralman and b) buyout Richards, you're nuts, he won't buyout Richards for the sake of bringing back Stralman, however, if buying out Richards brings in say Matt Moulson, i think he'd do that.
Callahan says he wants to stay a Ranger & understands trade rumors will persist until the situation is settled. (Canned response #47)
Its either going to be both of them stay or both of them go.. Keeping 1 and letting 1 go isnt going to happen. Theyl be here
Love these guys, but they are not worth more than 3 years. They dont produce enough offense to command that. See ya. get draft picks
I would not sign girardi to anything over a 3 yr deal....doesn't seem to me his "skills" will age well.
Girardi wants more then Mcdonagh? Trade him now, just on principle, cally hate to see him go but it's a must too
Honestly all hockey (and Sports and entertainment industry) wages are out of whack. We throw around money for contract here like we are playing with Monopoly money. Players should be happy with a lot less in general. To many people in this world doing a hell of a lot more for society for a lot less, like soldiers, police and the common blue collar worker
this is negotiation. they are not going to come out with demands that are less, or even equal to what they will take. they are coming in high. no worries.
Kev I agree about the possibilities once we r in. Hot goalie top ten special teams can carry u in the playoffs. This power play will win u a few games instead of going 7 u go 5 and that boston series was a lot closer than the games indicate. I disagree on not getting back nhl players or prospects ready for the nhl. A contender looking to add girardi or Callahan will give up young nhl players if it means winning this year. My gut tells me girardi stays because it's more difficult to replace him and his minutes and cally is a third line player and injury prone. Let's be honest and real here, we have not gotten anywhere with those two so I think we still make the playoffs this year without them and with all that cap space and prospects in the AHL watch out NHL. I think we will be contenders for a long time.
You got staal mcdonugh klein a few solid defenseman please sign callahan richards will be gone after this year sign the captain
Cally and Girardi must've taken Dubinsky's "how to negotiate out of NY" class. Hard to say this but Cally is replaceable. G is not. Who is going to play alongside McD? Top pair or top 4 d-men are harder to come by. Wish players would give the Rangers a hometown discount to keep the team competitive with a solid core. Nope, never happens for this team.
also. of course they are asking for that. who wouldn't. you never start low, especially with sather. they are going high, and they will meet in the middle.
cut bait on Cally. he's been wonderful and will never but a drink if I'm around. but he can get paid and get medical treatment elsewhere. I would keep Girardi. If I were Sather I would try to sign and trade Cally for a better return.
I think Sather will get them signed, this is all blown out of proportion by the media to get a story going and to get people to read their columns. Cally's agent is optimistic a deal can get done, and a player is going to start high it does not mean they will walk if they don't get that. I think 5 years @ 5.5 Million should be fair for everyone.
i say let em float. when they look back at the end of the season and consider the stadium series, and the seriousness of this organization, the new coach, the more offensive style, and then they think about who is going to give them the money the want...teams like buffalo, they are going to lower there asking prices to stay in new york. ryan callahan is the captain of the new york rangers. you don't walk away from that like its nothing.
Looking at some comps for Callahan i'll throw out two names, the first is David Backes, who is a bigger sized Ryan Callahan with similiar stats, yet plays the pivot instead of Callahan who plays on the wing. Backes got 4.5m/5yrs after '10-'11 at age 25, figure the growth of salaries in the league since then, as well as UFA vs. RFA i can see Callahan landing around $6m per year, but the detractors on the deal will state he's a wing not a Center and we already have $7.8m dedicated to another Winger, it's tough to build a team on the wing and not up the middle. That leads me to believe Callahan has to choose between money and length, if he wants 7 years at age 28 (turning 29 this year) he has to come down on the money, i'd say a sweet spot would be 5.25/7years would be a comfort level for the rangers and wouldn't hurt Callahan as he'd be getting a raise and a comprobable contract to the rest of his comparables. Also, you have to assume Callahan holds greater value on the market as a rental player for a playoff run adding to a teams 2nd and 3rd line depth as oppossed to his value on the free agent market. While his leadership is undeniable as is his work ethic, i'd find it really hard unless he found a prust-type deal for him to go out there and find a 7 year deal at $5-$6m as most teams just would not pay that for a 2nd line winger, ESPECIALLY in a market where you have wingers like Gaborik, Heatley (older but definite top 6 talents) --would you prefer Gaborik or Heatley on a shorter deal on your second line for the same money or Callahan on a 7 year deal probably knowing you'll eat the back 3 years of his deal and you'd get similiar production from Gaborik and Heatley's low end vs Callahan's top end. Teams don't pay that much a premium for leadership unfortunately. Also throw in there Matt Moulson, Vanek,Cammeleri and a premium Center in Stastny, i'd say Callahan is not fetching a deal north of $5 mill and longer than 5 years on the free agent market. I also feel that Sather knows them and has no problem giving Callahan the years as his leadership is more valuable to the Rangers than any other teams out there. If Cally is sitting firm on $6m/yr and 7 years, i don't blame Sather for exploring the market, if they can settle on $5m/7 years, i say get the deal done, but if he holds tight there are alot of other options out there and i wouldn't mind replenishing the system, replacing Cally with Fasth for the end of the season and taking a run at Cally in free agency on the other side anyways! (of course thats best case scenario and a bit of wishful thinking) Also keep in mind that the way this team has been playing, you don't want to break any of these lines up and you'd like to see if they can make a run. If you out-physical Pittsburgh, they're beatable and i'd like to see our system go up vs Boston in a re-match in a 7 game series, especially later in the playoffs could take advantage of their age and benefit our speed. Who knows, but the east is weak in the playoffs this year and if you can gear up for a run, and hank gets hot, you never know.
Another great break down. You're doing good work today! Love the Avatar by the way. Just got a Graves jersey off ebay, was too unsure about who from the current roster would still be around next year.
Sean Hartnett (beat writer for WFAN I guess) posted an article today about this contract stuff, citing that both Cally and Girardi were clearly past their prime because AV wasn't giving them the ice time they previously got. You only get 140 characters on Twitter, but I tried my best to disgree, using similar logic. Under Torts, the Rangers played tight, low scoring games, and when we had to protect a 1 goal lead, Torts sent out the guys he "trusted", sometime widdling down to a combination of 6-8 forwards and 3-5 d-men and just rotating while others sat stagnant on the bench for entire periods on end. That led to that streak of 100+ games where we didnt lose a game in regulation that we led going in to the 3rd (mostly under torts). Impressive stat, but it didn't earn us a Cup, just a lot of broken bones, bruises, and players who had to skate 25-30 minutes a night.
AV meanwhile has started to roll 4 lines, and the 3 d-pairs, and although I don't have the stats to back it up, the past few games where we've had big leads with 5-10 minutes left, I feel like you hardly seen McDonagh or Girardi. He gets his 3rd pair and 4th line out there as much as possible. Give them the minutes, save everyone else's energy.
Nice write up. A lot to swallow, but a couple thoughts:
- I like Stralman, but I think if it comes down to Cap Space they let him walk and bring up Conor Allen. I J Moore can develop offensively in the next few months with Klein now that DZ is gone, Stralman becomes expendable, and Allen becomes a good stay at home, 3rd pair guy
- The best teams continue to use an influx on entry level contracts to maintain cap space, which would lend itself to getting Allen into the Top 6 for D, and finding a place for Miller with the forwards, maybe 3rd line center and move Brassard (or buyout Richards).
- Boyle at $2 is f'ing joke. Guy signed for $1.7 after putting up 20 goals and then went back to being a 4th liner. If he wants to stay, he can have $1.25-1.5.
- Last problem I see is that Sather has to decide on Richards before July 1. He can't wait to see what a guy like Moulson will cost and then decide on Richards. He has to gamble that he can sign a replacement.
Stralman has been a more consistent D-man than Girardi since 2012. He should be the priority to sign
About as many as we had before the cap. We would just throw money around like before on every big name. The cap actually reinforced the idea of home grown talent here.
@rjonyr87Exactly, you aim high but are willing to come down to a certain degree. they are in on going talks and they should get closer to a deal soon.
@Lordstanleybroadway Only reason I say that is because both are UFAs at the end of the season. That's a big risk for any team no matter how close to the Cup they think they are.
Girardi takes less $$ / years or Klein plays with Mac. Conor Allen comes up, or another RH D-man in trade.
@pkh33OK, I happen ti disagree, but this pic just made my day. Hockey hug to you.
so was drury see how that worked out. callys great but he NO Mess so Callys come and go but Messiers come around once a generation. let me see Cally put the team on his back and take us to the promised land. NOT HAPPENING. Inside 4 years someone on this team will be as big a leader as cally or better.Kreider,McD and right now most players look up to Staal more than Cally
i agree on alot of fronts with what you say. especially in regards to bringing up Conor Allen on a much more manageable salary vs Stralman who will cost $3-$3.5m. Again, i agree with Miller coming up, hopefully he can stick, i'd really like to see them keep Brass, i think his passing ability is absolutely unparalleled and although the numbers don't reflect it YET, i think he can be one of the better assist guys in the league and he's not bad on faceoff's to boot. As for Boyle, i overshot on alot of estimates just because it's easier to overshoot when you'r estimating than undershoot. My point was if Sather gave everyone exactly what they wanted the only odd man out would be Strallman and that's not terrible. As for your final point, yes he has to decide, but he will be able to get an idea as to whether Moulson will be available and what range he'll be asking as well as other guys, so i think the decision on Richards will come at the very end of June when Sather has a read on the market, it's not a big gamble for Sather replacement wise because there are plenty of names out there he can bring in with Richards $. however, i don't expect if they cut Richards for them to bring in another big name big check guy, i think the b ig checks are going to Girqardi, Cally etc. I'd look for him to sprinkle it across a) dependable center (solid faceoffman) and a top end 2nd 3rd line winger that can play fast and strong in the corners with size. I think Sather found some steals this year with BP and Dom Moore and 3 contracts at $2m per could bring in alot of value. maybe a cammalleri, or a Mason Raymond in a BP type deal.
i don't know if that comment warrants a response. Stralman didn't become a mainstay on this team until last season, he didn't become defensively reliable until last years playoffs, in fact he was kind of a liability at times. Girardi has pretty much been the Darrelle Revis of this team's defense where you have no concerns when he's out there and he shuts down the opponents best player. Just look at how Ovechkin hasn't scored vs the Rangers (except the last matchup) for almost 2 seasons, thats Girardi.
no, Cally is not Mess, Cally is Cally and his value lies in that. Can't compare Cally to Mess the same way you can't compare Talbot to Richter for example. Messier was a once in a lifetime Captain that just does not exist in sports anymore. Cally does hold value for this team and he's a guy you want to have in his prime or else oppossing GM's wouldn't be looking at him as the gem in the deadline deal class of this year.
Drury hit the market in a much different fashion than Cally is. First off, Drury became a free agent in his age 30 season after back to back 30 goal seasons including 37 goals, 32 assists and also was a center. As well, the free agent market was not as deep as this years, it consisted of Gomez, and Briere , beyond those two was Ryan Smyth and Radek Dvorak. This year you have tremendous depth in the FA class.
Great minds think alike!
Sorry for the F-bomb with Boyle, just struck a nerve, i guess.
Definitely agree that when estimating its safer to be fat, especially with the possibility of the cap being closer to 69 or 70.
I like Brassard, like you do, lots of potential, which is why he was a high first round pick, but I think a lot comes down to Step and what Sather goes hunting for on the market. Step continues to walk a fine line of whether he's a 1st line caliber guy or a 2nd. If there was one available, I'd love to see Sather get a proven 1st line center with Richards' money, slide Stepan back to the 2nd, and then Brassard becomes expendable. But like you noted, Richards' money may be needed elsewhere, and if Statsny resigns with Colorado, there really are no solid UFA options for a center, in which case Step would be 1st, Brassard 2nd, Miller 3rd.
As for BP, it would be nice to lock him in for a few years at a reasonable rate, but I think he needs to be on a 1-year at a time deal to stay motivated, and just hope he'd choose to stay her for less money is a system that's finally working for him.
Look let's all be honest and stop the kissing Girardi ass..... the guy has sucked for 2 yrs and McD has carried him. Covering his mistakes and his lack of being physical......enough is enough already.... i am not giving 5.5 million to a guy that plays like a pussy. .....i would nt
Pk doesn't count for +/-. And I thought Ovechkin switched from left wing to right wing. Either way, they weren't able to shut him down before McD got to NYR. Girardi is the great compliment to McD but that's all he is. Where is Stralman plays(ed) with the likes of DZ, J. Moore, a constantly recovering Staal and is still only -4. That's a testament to his play in itself. Just watch them both in the D Zone with the puck and when playing one on one. Girardi goes down to block shots, Stralman hits and causes turn overs. Girardi makes a flat footed pass or bounces a puck off the wall, Stralman makes a move to lose a forechecker and the pegs a bullet on someones tape. Also, if we're going into old numbers Stralman had 6 goals and 28 assists on the CBJ in 2010. He's 2 years younger than G and we'll come at a much cheaper price. Just watch Stralman the next few games. I've been preaching this for the last 2 years. Second on the defensive depth chart to MCD in my opinion
you're entitled to your opinion but keep in mind Stralman had 6 pts in the playoffs 2 years ago, not last year (not taking anything away from him, but 2 of those goals were on the PP (we had 2 power play goals in the playoffs under JT WHAT?) Stralman has played well, but McD and Girardi were used only vs. Ovechkin and Girardi played on Ovechkin's side (Ovi switched wings last year) in last years playoffs. I really can't see where you're coming from in regards to him getting caught flat footed though so i'm sorry maybe you see something i'm missing. They are two different defenseman though, so you cannot compare them. however Stralman has always been a better 1st pass kind of Dman than Girardi but thats not Girardi's purpose. Also in regards to +/-, Stralman is a -4 this year vs opponents 2nd/3rd lines and Girardi who plays on the pk has a 0+/- and has 15pts including 2 SH assists (not bad for transition) vs Stralman's 6 pts this year. Also, the minutes, Stralman has never really played more than 19mn a game, the last 2 seasons Girardi AVERAGED 25 and 26 minutes a game, that's insane and durable and tough. btw, anybody notice Girardi had 10 goals and 18 assists in 2007-'08? wow.
I respectfully disagree. Stralman was a beast in the 2012 playoffs leading the defense with 6 points as well as playing solid defense and being the main source of their transition game. Girardi was a mac truck in the past. But now he gets caught flat-footed all the time, refuses to tie up men in front and goes to his knees CONSTANTLY to block passes/shots which good offensive players easily skip around. He doesn't move his feet before making passes and he has no snarl to his game or voice on the ice. Meanwhile stralman is one of the teams best hitters, continually uses his legs to get out of trouble in the defensive zone and DOESN'T PLAY WITH MCD - who is by far the team's best shut down D-man and the real reason Ovechkin has been held scoreless. Girardi is a brand name at this point while Stralman is the generic brand that is just as good if not better but half the price. You sign Stralman.
Comes down to the hypocrisy. ... players and their agents wanna get the most money they can.....When they say it's a business. That's the route they are taking. But they throw in the i always wanna stay here so the fans don't turn on them.....Cally is not worth 6 million for 7 yrs.....
I don't care what anyone says... 3 ample Messier did the same thing when he didnt get his max contract and took the money in vancouver and was miserable there.....and came back
Point this about money or about winning champion ships.. Take the heat. THEY have 2 rings. Why they took less money to get more parts and most want to play there for the chance to win... Due to their track record
GIRARDI IS OVER RATED AND PEOPLE CRYING A BOYLE HE IS A TOP GUY only BY DEFAULT. The guy was a sold dman 5 yrs ago. LAST 2 yrs he has sucked and is acting like he is tacking estrogen pills.
@Bring back Langdon@NYRBlueBlog You wrote,"this is a business first and winning a cup is foremost." It is most definitely a business as you stated. Don't think for one minute that in the mind of Dolan and Sather that winning The Cup is foremost. Many here as you and I do, want the parade but those two gems have different priorities.
actually i was referring to 4-5 years as a fantasy , he'd deservingly so laugh at it, please give me a comparison of who scores 25/25, Plays the PP and the PK and 20 minutes plus a game in the leage under the age of 30 and is getting 4-5years at $5m per, if you show me ONE player who's at the beginning of his contract i'll shut my mouth, but if you're citing :"investment" you need to cite the market and what the market dictates, we just proved that his stats are comparable to Brown's who will be at $7.1/8 years until 38 and you're saying as an investment he's not worth $6 until he's 35? you're living in 2008 salarys not 2014.
your right thats a fantasy to give him what he asks for. if he can get it elsewhere good bye and good luck wish him and his family well. he is not worth it going forward. happens with other teams all the time, got to give sometimes to get and give while the getting is good. he is not worth that kind of cash he is a checking forward who is a depreciating investment. this is a business first and winning a cup is foremost. only business decision that keeps him is his jersey and other sales value equal or exceed his contract asking price
that's a fantasy (5m/5yrs) he's finishing up a 3 year, 4.25m RFA "bridge" deal and with a rising cap, 5 years/5m is an insult and he'll walk and be right to. that's a Lou Lamorello deal. I'm telling you, they'll need to give him a raise and the years(stability) he wants. Cally knows at age 33, he won't fetch more than $2m so the back 2-3 years of his contract are important not in value but stability. That's why they'll give him the 7 years and Sather won't mind it. It's the money and cap flexibility they'll have next year and the year after that matters.
right i agree what i am saying is Drury came with a much better resume than Cally. a proven leader and scorer. cally can lead by example not very vocal. not as scorer but a solid player(3rd line checker )3RD line checkers that score 25g at best dont get 6mm over6-7 yrs