There were two plays last night in Philadelphia that, if they went the other way, could have led to a Rangers victory instead of their sixth defeat in eight games to start the season.
The first was a borderline boarding penalty by Beniot Pouliot on Max Talbot...
Pouliot received a five-minute major (which the Rangers killed off) as well as a game misconduct. He will now await word from the league on a possible suspension.
Pouliot didn't speak to the media after the game per the Rangers instructions.
Talbot on Pouliot hit: "I can’t really skate that well, so I may have stumbled on my feet. I didn’t feel like I got pushed or anything."— Sarah Baicker (@sbaickerCSN) October 25, 2013
...should it have been a penalty? Absolutely. But if you watch the replay closely, Pouliot looks like he might have gotten him from the side and then Talbot, as he mentions, seems to stumble a bit before hitting the wall. A game misconduct is usually assessed when there's an intent to injure, which I think we can all agree was not the case here. Probably should have been a two-minute minor.
...having said that, with the league's commitment to safety (LOL!) guys have to be real careful when they're defending a player from behind. The ref is just waiting to make that call. Especially in the wake of all the dangerous hits we've seen early this season.
...as far as a possible suspension, while I don't think there should be one, especially after Talbot comment, I've stopped trying to figure out how Shanahan might rule on these things.
The second incident was the disallowed goal on JT Miller...
Here's Miller on the call (via Bergen Record)...
“I didn’t think I kicked it, obviously it just caught me off guard by the way it went in. On the replay you can see I was swinging my stick and just tried to bang in a rebound. They saw something with my leg coming through but I actually thought that was a good goal.”
Flyers goalie Steve Mason responded with this...
“It was just a kicking motion. I knew it right away. Right call.”
...without a doubt it was a kicking motion. However, I'm not 100% sure that Miller was actually kicking his leg on purpose. Looked more like the follow through of his stride. Either way it was a tough call for the booth in Toronto and actually because the call was a goal on the ice, they probably shouldn't have changed it.
...while the Rangers didn't get the benefit of the doubt on either call, I refuse to blame the refs for the loss last night, because when you rely on calls going your way to win, you probably don't deserve to.
Facts suck, Torts doing great in Vancouver, all our guys in Columbus playing their hearts out and actually scoring top six Gab, Dubi and Artie---I know I'm a sore loser but this really sucks---PLEASE someone take responsibility for this debacle--cough cough SATHER!
Both were marginal and could have gone either way, but the Flyers are not a good team and we barely broke even on dominance of play so just can't buy into the calls. One thing I will say is that defensively they looked a tad better in their own zone with the rookie goaltender. They're not that talented, and have injuries so they have to forecheck and play hard - so why the hell does Stephan (on one play that defines the whole problems of this team now) pull up to try to stop a breakout pass from the goal line instead of finishing his check and crunching the opponent to try to force a turnover. When you pull up it still gives the Dman 270 degrees to complete a pass. Play aggressive, hit hard and force mistakes for god's sake. If AV was not tearing Step a new asshole after that play he's deficient as a coach. Hockey 101!
If we can't get find another home for DZ then we have to at least remove him from the PP. He is so hard to watch. Can't keep the puck in and turns the puck over way to easily. I feel like AV is walking into a wall over and over again and then wondering why his head hurts. Here is an idea - stop walking into the wall! I'm at the point where I cringe more when DZ is on the ice than Pyatt. Man is this a hard team to watch this year - we just look outclassed.
if you watch the replay, after the goal is scored Miller actually looks like he hesitate to celebrate because he knew he kicked it. It wasn't intentional but that was the right call.
On a side note: Think I'll start watching AHL hockey if i have to watch another game where 2 ranger players collide into each other or a player diving for the puck at the blue line. and for christ sakes, MDZ!@ what was he doing at the end of the game w/ the goalie pulled passing the puck to the boards w/ no one but flyers around! trade him
Looking at the replay of the Miller non-goal a few times, watch the timing of his skate moving back. The puck hits Mason as his foot is already back. His hands are getting ready to one-time the puck. According to the NHL rulebook, rule 49.2, "A puck that is directed into the net by an attacking player’s skate shall be a legitimate goal as long as no distinct kicking motion is evident." (From NHL.com)
I think Toronto was hand-cuffed on this rule.
USA Hockey rules for youth hockey would have allowed more leway, and would most likely have allowed the goal to stand. Rule 614d of the USA rulebook reads "The goal shall not be allowed if the puck has been kicked, thrown or otherwise deliberately directed into the goal by any means other than a stick", with an emphasis on deliberate kicking motion.
Miller did not act deliberately, and thats a tough call to make, but it is technically the correct call. You'd hope Toronto just had a LITTLE bit of common sense about it
I think it is pretty safe to say that we are the worst team in the league or at least on-par with Buffalo, who we face next week.
Agreed Al. While I was one of about 100 Rangers fans letting my displeasure be known re the non-goal in the Well Fargo Center, the fact is this team sucks and they should have beaten the Flyers, who have plenty of their own problems. Kevin, I am assuming Lundqvist is gone already, if he really wants to win a Cup. Even if he doesn't, we can't spend the money he wants and expect to field a competitive team. Look at Chicago and look at how much Crawford makes. It can be done, and probably easier than the route this team is going now.
Cam played well, too bad the rest of the team didn't…Fast should go back to Hartford in exchange for Kristo. And will we please bench the useless Pylon, or send him packing? This guy must have incriminating photos of AV or something, I don't understand how he continues to crack the lineup, and get the minutes and opportunities he's had.
Pathetic, sluggish, disorganized - and these are the kindest terms I can think of as regards the last night's game. I have been suspicious of AV from the very moment he had Arniel join him as an assistant. It's true that some players are missing from the lineup, but nothing can justify the lack of energy and zeal on the part of this miserable bunch of millionairies. MDZ lived up to his "Delzaster" sobriquet; Sterpan was invisible; Kreider's greatest contribution was to help the Flyers by knocking down McDonagh.
The call I disagree with is that the Rangers should have gotten a man advantage penalty in the Mashinter-Simmonds scuffle. Simmonds pulled his own helmet off which should be an additional 2 minutes. Mashinter's helmet (and Dorsett's too for that matter) was pulled off by Simmonds so they don't get the extra 2. But the refs seemed a little intimidated by the Philthy crowd all night
GET PYATT OFF THIS TEAM PLEASEEEE. Again getting sold ice time, AND was out there when we pulled the goalie. He botched an attempted at keeping the puck in the zone for our last chance. I just don't get it, what does management see in this guy? He's gotta have blackmail on AV or something.
Honestly, the pouliot play was stupid. He shoved him from behind at a spot that was dangerous and from behind. Gonna be a call every and all times. You have to know the rules and know when to let up. I knew he was gone as soon as I saw the replays. Miller's non goal was just that. A non goal. If we can't score one real goal on a team with one win and zero goals on a team with no wins, then we should be talking about something other than controversial plays...imho
btw...the one thing we can really learn from the Pouliot hit.
Look at how the PHI players immediately came to Talbot's defense! on a borderline intent call! What a concept!
Different sport, but once Andre Agassi was screwed over in a junior match cause his opponent was cheating, calling shots that were good, out. (they called their own lines) He was furious, but later realized, that he never should have put himself in a position were the calls would make a difference. Likewise, as Kevin said, the NYR should not have put themselves in the position where one or two borderline calls means winning or losing.
The Miller no goal was the right call. I have seen soccer players score with less of a kicking motion.
The Miller no-goal i get, but tough to call the Pouliot penalty a game changer. We killed the 5 minute major, so yes, while it was 5 straight minutes we spent playing defense, I think Miller actually managed one scoring chance on the kill. The 5 minute kill should have swung momentum toward the Rangers, but they continue to refuse to build off anything they manage to do right.
As for Pouliot getting the misconduct, it was the wrong call, but it made little difference. Pouliot's be horrible since game 1, doesn't deserve top 6 minutes, and had just as much of an impact on the game in the locker room than he would have on the ice. It screwed up AV's rotations, but that's really it.
Whatever... Shouldn't come down to this against one of the worst teams in the NHL that is 1-7.Before the home opener we need to talk about the voodoo the Canadiens use to control Hank. It's actually gotten to the point where he can't play against them, but of course AV doesn't know this yet...
I was also shocked to see Pyatt thrown out as the extra man when Talbot was pulled. Yeah - let's throw our slowest guy out there because puck pursuit doesn't matter late in the game at desparation time.
And PP time. But if Callahan Nash and Hagelin are healthy ole' hunchback doesn't sniff those minutes
@shoot_the_goalie the Rangers actually did a little of that too. Dorsett stuck up for McD and Mashinter, even D Moore got in Giroux face after the hit to Girardi at the end of the 2nd.
@shoot_the_goalie Got to give Dorsett credit for coming to McD's aid last night.
@johnnyb3910 AV ended up playing just three lines the rest of the way, so it had an impact.
@Trade DelZotto+Girardi4E.Kane I thought he only struggled IN Montreal. Those games on HNIC seem to stick out more than when we host them at MSG, although we probably lose those, too. It's all such a blur sometimes.
@sureshore not only slow, he can't contain the puck for more than a few seconds if that, and he can't make plays! Oh, and he can't score.
Seriously though, watching Boyle and Pyatt on a rush is like watching snails. It's embarrasingly slow, I wouldn't even call it a rush. More like a crawl. We need speed.
@AnnoyingJoe doesn't do it for me. Bring up Kristo or Hrivik. Jeeze, ANYONE is better than this guy