The New York Rangers (12-12-0) lost to the Tampa Bay Lightning (15-8-1) by the score of 5-0, tonight. For a box score, go to Yahoo! Sports.
...yeah, Bishop was good, blah, blah, blah. I don't want to hear it. The Rangers need to start crashing the net and crashing it hard. Until they do that, opposing goaltenders are going to continue to have an easy time against the Rangers. It's not about the quantity of shots, it's about quality
...the Rangers power play is approaching Mike Sullivan territory it's been so bad lately. Not scoring on that 5-on-3 killed them tonight.
...so if Talbot gets the start over Lundqvist Wednesday night do the Rangers officially have a goaltending controversy?
...i know he's just coming off a concussion, but the Rangers best goal scorer needs to start scoring some goals.
...wonder if that puck on St. Louis first goal was in Staal's peripheral. Just sayin'.
...appreciate Dorsett's heart out there, but he can't be the Rangers enforcer. Mashinter needs to be on the next flight out to Florida to replace Miller on the roster.
...plug needs to be pulled on the Pouliot experiment immediately. Useless out there.
...while I love the dads road trip idea, I have to wonder where the Rangers mindset was tonight after two days in the Florida sun golfing with their fathers.
...i know everyone loves the Kreider-Step-Zucc line, but the Rangers have now scored seven goals in the last six games. Time to shake up the entire lineup.
...i don't think even the Islanders want Del Zotto after that one.
...on a positive note, I thought Stralman's offense from the blueline really stood out.
...not sure which was worse, the no call on Richards being hooked down or the roughing the passer penalty on Kiwanuka last night.
...bottom line is that the Rangers were just not a hard enough team to play against tonight. Zero physical presence. And to me that starts with the Captain, who is just not leading with that grinding style we've all become accustomed to.
...off tomorrow then in Sunrise, Florida for the Panthers.
Post game talk...
i agree we need to lose boyle pyatt pouliot and mdz.... but this is a good team we have people need to stay calm.. like i said were getting quality scoring chances every nite.. we have losses where we totally outplayed the other team... if we keep playing like this guys will find there scoring touch... i personally would like to pick up one more guy to replace pouliot in the top9... and a dman that can score... id trade lundquvist for green straight up at this point.... make the evander kane trade happen give them whatever they want
first of all the quality over quanitity argument doesnt work here.. because were getting quality quality scoring chances.... weve had more quality scoring chances 20 games in this season then we did all last season... the guys just arent putting the puck in the net.. and were starting to give the goaltender the credit instead of blaming the shooters... guys need to start picking corners.. kreider needs to realize these arent minor league goalies anymore and u have to shoot high on them... the scoring will come around because the percentages are on our side so dont panic... nash kreider stepan richards... all good finishers that just havent been gettin it done yet but they will and i play hockey with the rangers practice goalie.. he said zuccarello has the best shot on the team so we need him to start shooting more
We seem to have evolved into a combination of a tortorella offense and an AV offense.What does that mean? Too much cycling behind the goal with no one in front to pass to and rarely a third man to follow up for tip ins or flip ins off goalie rebounds.
Are we too slow? Maybe. We definitely are not strong enough. We get flattened if we stand in front of the goal(except Kreider). I think AV should start an upper body weightlifting club and rehire the skating teacher that Boyle hired the summer before he scored 20 goals.
I'm also getting tired of watching Dorsett punch guys with his face. Unless our goaltending saves us, we are a 500 club.
Can't score with this horrid lineup. Besides Nash and Callahan it's a joke. And I'm so sick of Dorsett getting his face worked on. Bring up a big boy or trade. No one is scared to play us.
Frank I couldn't agree more. His act is old. Instead of being a celeb maybe he should work on his game. Soft goals every night and 0 cups. Fans loyalty to him is a joke.
Sather IMO has made the right decision in not signing Hank just yet. The defensive play Torts instilled by blocking shots helped make Hank look great. Now AV's system is exposing Hank as just a regular goaltender who can have a great night when the team blocks for him and give up plenty when they don't. I would not give him max dollars anymore. Maybe it's time for the Rangers to trade him for another top line sniper since we have Talbot who looks like a serviceable goalie who has upside.
That was a pitiful effort last night. Hank stunk out the place again and we can not get the dirty goals. I would be very careful about throwing big money and term Hanks way based on the season he is having. He is now 6 and 11. Not very impressive. Also this team is having the same problems as they have had for last 10 to 12 years. They have no grit. No one willing to get dirty and fight for those dirty goals in front of the net except probably 2 of the smallest forwards we have (Zucc and Cally). Boyle sure is the softest 6' 7" player I have ever seen. Time to go in a different direction. Lose Pyatt, Boyle, MDZ and Pouliout for starters and bring up some of the kids like Kristo, Mash and Fast.
Anyone else get pissed that Richards laid on the ground and cried for a penalty while play went other way (and eventually, a goal?). Give the refs an earful after the play (which he did) , not in the middle of when you can brush yourself off and get back into the play as back checker. There was no guarantee Tampa would have scored on first shot.
Have no fear... Pyatt is back next game... Smh... So our lack of scoring is due to the lack of another penalty killing forward, while Kristo is wasting his scoring down in Hartford
I don't know what it is about Hank but he just doesn't seem 100% there. I don't know if it's the smaller pads or the new defensive philosophy or the contract situation or any other possible excuse I can try to think of to come up with for him, but something seems off. That being said, I'm not willing to ignore the fact he's had 30 wins in seven straight seasons, would have been eight if the lockout didn't happen. He needs to pick up his game sooner rather than later.
Goaltending is only one issue though. The Rangers average 32 shots per game, up from the previous two seasons.Yet we're tied for Carolina for only 2 goals per game. Two seasons ago, we averaged 2.71 goals a game with only 28 shots, putting us 11th in the league with goals for. We were able to create traffic in front of the net and score the garbage goals. This year, we're getting shots but we have no one to pick up the garbage. Shit they teach that in the Mighty Ducks! Also, our defensemen have to stop bruising the shins of players on other teams since those blocked shots turn into odd man rushes for the other teams.
As for the enforcer thing, still not willing to sacrifice a roster spot for someone who's sole purpose is to fight. That being said, if a player like Haley could come in, light a physical spark under the teams ass while playing a solid forechecking game then let it happen.
Just not Bickel...never Bickel...
I'll say one thing, AV is starting to sound irritated. I'm not hoping for losses, but I think something needs to snap and he needs to find a little mean streak.
@LanceGold1 I think McIlrath needs to be up sooner than later. This team is soft. Dorrsette taking that beating took the Rangers physical game way. They played on the perimeter all night & made Bishop look like Ken Dryden (he did make some tough saves at times)
The stone hands of the Rangers are killing them. This team flat out can't score & sure as hell won't score doing their best Petr Nedved impressions. What? get to the inside and shoot from the inside of the circle? What if someone hits me?
2nd too last in the league in goals (48) to Buffalo!!! Can't blame Hank for that.
The lack of traffic in front of the net, incredibly low percentage shots, failure to take advantage on the PP, and the lack of grit are the real problems.
Every once in a while if your goalies off you should put up 4, 5 or 6 and bail him out... When's the last time that happened for Hank? (or Cam?) Can't hitch your wagon to Hank and Nash, they need balance.
High glove side. Bruins coaches tell the players to shoot high glove side on Lundqvist and more teams have caught on.
Lance below is right. People just see lack of toughness and assume a fighter can provide it. Wrong. You want toughness in a different sense - you want MEAN. You want players that play mean. The Rangers don't have that - they have soft players. You want Scott Stevens, Claude Lemiuex, Messier, Neil, Lucic, players that will "fight" for EVERYTHING and with an attitude. The Rangers are just so embarrassingly soft.
I know this is sacrilege on this site, but I don't think Mashinter is the toughness factor we need. He plays a very passive game although he is pretty talented once the gloves are dropped. We need someone who plays with an edge (basically a bigger Dorsett).....and I am not sure we have that in the Hartford either from a forward perspective....Haley is the same as Dorsett. Bickel can't play forward, Asham is not happening.....that guy in Hartford right now plays D in Mcilrath. Double game misconduct in the last game......if we can deal Del Zotto for a Zack Smith or Neil and replace Del Zotto with McIlrath, we get bigger and tougher to play against.
Bishop played a good game and made some good saves. The lack of traffic in front of the net and the shots from the boards and point also helped make his life a little easier than it should have been. Someone needs to stand in front of the net and act as a screen. We've been taking a boatload of shots the past 3 or 4 games with very little to show for it and it's because there is no one in front of the net to screen and to pick up rebounds.
Hank has been off his game for most of the season. He's shown flashes of brilliance but hasn't been able to sustain that for any meaningful stretch. Talbot has been very impressive in each of the games he has been in and has been earning more and more playing time.
It doesn't help that our defense has been abysmal, giving up multiple breakaways last night, horrible passes, and poor positioning. Staal is meh, MDZ is just awful, and Girardi is nothing like what he has been the past few seasons. McDonough has been pretty good (way better on the PP than MDZ) and Stralman has been effective. Staal, MDZ, and Girardi are all -6 on the season. Stralman is the only defenseman better than -2 and is the only one that actually has a + rating (+1).
I'm not sure what happened to the powerplay but it went from being very effective to "please dont give the other team a penalty!!"
The bottom line is that this the expected result when a mediocre team plays a good team. ( Lets face the Rangers are mediocre at best , can't sugar coat that fact.)
I will say, for starters, being at the game for Marty St Louis' 1,000 game celebration was pretty cool. I remember watching that 03-04 playoff run, the OT games in 5 and 6. Pretty exciting stuff. So it was nice to see some of that relived, lots of videos, players from elsewhere in the league sending in little 30 second clips saying Congrats being played throughout the night, and some pre-game presents/awards from Steve Yzerman, the Lighting Owner, Steve Stamkos (actually walked out on the ice, and like the presser yesterday, no clrutches or boot! INSANE!), and Dave Andrechuyk and Brad Richard also being involved.
Then there was a hockey game that only one team showed up. I'll be honesty, I had an hour drive home, so I left after the second period. But some quick thoughts:
- Pouliot needs to be done. Guy is in his own world out there. Can't pass to teammates, can't sustain possession, you'd think every shift was his first shift on this team.
- Staal had a rough night. I think the foot might be hurting more than he's letting on. You know he's going to have a rough night when he's too stationary and reaching, which he did last night. MDZ is just forcing it. And he'll do that as long as he's here. He needs a fresh start, and we need something in return.
- Is it just coincidence that the recent regression of the the PP coincides with Nash returning to the line-up? I don't think Arniel currently has any idea how to use him. This is the typical progression for a PP: It gets good, teams learn to defend it, it adjusts until its good again. We started off (finally) taking shots from the points and scoring on screens. Now teams are playing our point men more aggressively, but we arent set up to shoot from the dots. The wingers aren't facing the goal, no one is setting up one timers. The space you create at the faceoff dot for the one timers that Ovechkin, Stamkos, Malkin, etc. have made into trademark goals need to be the next step. There are times when our wingers have the puck at the dot and aren't even looking at the goal, just waiting to pass back to the point. Also can't help but notice that our second PP unit (which has MDZ and Pouliot on it), has absolutely no idea what to do, and because of line changes, was consistently the first unit out there on a PP last night, just ruining our momentum.
"...so if Talbot gets the start over Lundqvist Wednesday night do the Rangers officially have a goaltending controversy?"
Yes. They do. The controversy started at the end of last season when Hank said "“I’ve had a great time in New York. They have treated me really well. We’ll see where it goes.” and then he didn't sign in the off-season. He was hob-knobbing around New York in the off-season and not working towards this season. And, don't say "well he earned his time off". Sure, take some time off - but don't flaunt it over social media. What did Brad Richards do? Focus on this season. I digress. If he continues to be inconsistent this season there's no reason for the Rangers to give him a MASSIVE contract which he so wants. You can't blame the guy for that; you have to also see the writing on the wall that if the Rangers won't give him the money - he will go somewhere else. Might as well get draft picks and scoring if he's just going to walk at the end of the season. This isn't to say he won't turn it around, but it's becoming a controversy.
The Rangers are a joke with their clog the middle defense & chip in garbage . Hockey is meant to be played at a fast pace & entertain . There's nothing entertaining about the Rangers - unless of course you enjoy watching Dorsett get his face punched over & over while the 6 ft 9 Brian Boyle watches .
Pouliet is as useful as a bag of ice while scuba diving in the Arctic. My point being, it's senseless.
This team is as erratic as a child with ADHD at a laser light show.
How awesome are my analogies?
The scoring needs to pick up, so why not mix up the lines a bit and PUT MILLER IN THE LINEUP!!! I mean you cannot expect this kid to perform if you shove him in the 4th line.
The team has the toughness of a field mouse at this point. Bring up Mashinter. Let him skate on a line with Dorsett and Moore. That's a fourth line.
The latest rumor regarding del Zaster is that the Ducks are looking to trade a signed Gordon Bombay jersey for him.
I don't know Kevin... I think Bishop was a brick shithouse last night. Dude was solid. Hank wasn't. Seems like energy picked up with Talbot in net... Am I seeing a trend here?
Now you can say Hank had a bad game! I've been one of his staunchest supporters on this blog and still will be but I have to admit, he obviously had a tough night but anyone that's ready to run him out of town and create " a goalie controversy" is just plain stupid.
@Mike Kolb callahan????? you lose ne credibility as a hockey fan with that dumb statement..... stepan zuccarello kreider hagelin richards are all better than callahan.. callahan is the most overrated player on this team.. yes he plays hard wich is great but hes not a scorer at all and he spends most of his icetime in his own end.. he belongs on the third line
@cardboardcllctr I somewhat agree, but Im more pissed that two refs missed such a blatant penalty. Its not as if it was behind the play, it WAS the play. That was total BS and Richards had every right to give them an earful at the end of the play.
@MarkRennie I don't know Kevin. I say NYR dump Pouliot and put Kristo on the 3rd line with hags and Brassard. Let's see what the kid can do.
@MarkRennie The Wolfpack have been shutout in four of their last five games. Not sure Kristo is the answer.
@JoshKaye They didn't make his glove smaller, and that's where he's consistently getting beat.
Our change in strategy has certainly allowed for more odd-man rushes, especially when our forwards make bonehead plays in the neutral zone with our D-men skating in the wrong direction. But a glaring number of 2 on 1 goals are being scored by the guy who carries the puck into the zone scoring on simple wrist shots, which falls on the goalie.
and you're right about picking up the garbage. AV came in here preaching about driving the net and creating second and thrid chances, but I've yet to really see us do that consistently, if at all.
@Say my Name and to Lance. You guys are right on the money. Thank the CAP that all owners agree to. It reduces salaries and inhibits large market teams from trading for and/or signing those kind of players. Due to the Cap we will just have to build from the farm up.
Defensively (goalie and the D) we are now built for a cup run. Offensively we are not. We are soft,,,,,,soft,,,,,soft. And everybody around the league knows it and where it is possible the opposition (tougher teams) will take "the will "of our offense away from us. They will wear us down and take away our will.
With the way we are made up If the King or Talbot has an average game we simply do not have the toughness to score enough goals to compensate. Toughness is not about fighting as you point out. It is definitelt about meanness....meanness every night. Dorsett and Cally do it consistently.
Being mean is an "act of the will".....many players have to transform their personality to play mean and they flat out WON'T CHOOSE TO PLAY THAT WAY.
Mean players would make Nash, Richards, Stepan, Dorsett, Boyle more intense and therefore more effective..
@LanceGold1 some hockey fans just never give up about the toughness. the NYR are tough, very tough to play against. we lose 5-0 , cant score and you want to talk bickel mashinter and neil? who james neal? cause hed be more help. give it up already you dont win the cup with your fists or with size
@LanceGold1 Despite your negative comment on Mashinter, it's hard to disagree with what you're saying.
@johnnyb3910 I agree... Staal had a terrible game. If the foot is bothering him that much, he needs to sit for a few games.
@ShreddyMercury God, I love those movies... takes me back to my childhood years.
@HJB91 I agree but if Hank is looking for a long lucrative contract, he's going about it the wrong way. IMO there are a number of goalies who is better then Lundqvist and the Lightning goalie is one of them.
@HJB91 You don't "run him out of town", but you DO try and get something for him now instead of letting him walk for just picks. And I'm sure no one is stupid enough to sign a 32 yr old goalie to a long term big money deal.
@HJB91 If he doesn't re-sign with the Rangers (a distinct possibility) nobody would have run him out of town; and then the Rangers get nothing.
@DubiLeetch @LanceGold1 Just throwing this out there, would you seriously keep Pouliot or Pyatt in the lineup if you could switch him for Mashinter, Haley or Bickel. Both Pouliot and Pyatt bring NOTHING to the table. The Rangers main problems (if I had to choose two things) are scoring and toughness. Pouliot and Pyatt dont do either. Unless we can call up a guy who can consistently get us scoring opportunities, get the next best thing the Rangers need, toughness. Id rather a tough team that can fight, throw hits and won't get pushed around and looses than a soft team that looses. Im all for more goals but at the moment that problem will take longer to solve considering we cant call anyone up at the moment for goals, we'll have to make a trade. On the other hand, solving the toughness issue is as simple as calling up one of those guys and sitting Pouliot, Pyatt.
@DubiLeetch @LanceGold1 I understand your take.....we need to score...but I know what I saw when Prust, Dubinsky, Rupp, and others were on the ice for the Rangers......a better rounded team. I also know I saw the Rangers become a more effective team once Clowe arrived last season....changed the entire dynamic of the team. I just think the creative skill guys play different knowing they are going to have space and time. I just think we have gotten too far away from that with the current stock of Pyatt, Pouliot, D Moore, etc....those guys don't add anything from the physical side or the scoring side.....we are set up like the Detroit Red Wings without the offensive skill guys to pull it off.
@Kevin DeLury @LanceGold1 Any chance we can teach McIlrath to play forward? I think the one risk with him (or fighting defensemen), even when he is ready, is getting stuck playing with 5 D-men when he gets 5 minutes or a misconduct.
I agree that Dorsett can't be our enforcer. Whether we add an enforcer or not, that was a terrible decision to start that fight. I know what he was going for, but when you're giving up 6 inches and the better part of 50 pounds, the odds of swinging momentum are low. He'd have been better served channeling his inner Avery, throwing a big hit or pissing someone off, and trying to get the Lightning to start chasing him.
@scrangersfan @HJB91 Hank has always been overrated. He is really good - at his best,, and had ONE year when he was top 5. He has GENERALLY not sniffed above top 5 in any category GAA, Save %, etc.. in his career. He is a top 10 goalie at his best....but every NY fan thinks he is the best in the world - or the top 3. Idiots.
@HJB91 meaning...hopefully that at least the NYR aren't...
@HJB91 It's harder to score goals when your goalie puts you in a huge hole to begin the game.
@johnnyb3910 @Kevin DeLury @LanceGold1 They are grooming McIlrath to be a be a top 4 defense-men. He's physical and he can fight.. They are trying to round out his game with Jeff Beukeboom & since Ulf Samuelsson is an AC,, id say that's where they want him to be. Tough, can drop the gloves when needed, not be a liability with one way PIMS and keep the other guys honest. Beuky & Ulfy didn't score a lot or skate so pretty but they both have multiple Stanley Cup Rings. (side note, I hated Ulf as a player and i probably wouldn't shake his hand if i met him, because of that Cam Neely hit) That's where we need this kid to be. AT 21, he may need some more work but, some on the job training with the big club shouldn't be out of the question.
@Say my Name @scrangersfan @HJB91 He's 11th ALL-TIME in GAA (7 of those in front of him played less games) and 3rd ALL-TIME in SV% (2 100ths away from 1st all-time). So what's your definition of "over-rated", because I think mine is just a bit different. Then again, I guess I'm just an idiot, facts schmacts, who needs them!
@johnnyb3910 @DubiLeetch @MiddleSwine @Say my Name @scrangersfan @HJB91 true but its not like hes getting 20 mill. hes getting about 6.8 now maybe a raise to 7? 6-7 million for 2-3 players gets you dan girardi, carl hagelin and taylor pyatt. your going to say spend the million on 1 player? ok who? there are no 7 million dollar goal scorers available , and if they are its becuase they suck and are overpaid like vanek on the isle. he makes about 7, would you 1-1 hank for vanek? if you did youd be laughed at.
@johnnyb3910 @DubiLeetch @MiddleSwine @Say my Name @scrangersfan @HJB91 our only chance for a cup is to get behind hank and let him lead the way, what team have ya all been watching last 6 years? hes all we got. HANK and the scrap heap, our whole team is built from hank out. if you think you could flip him for offensive players and no mis a beat your nuts. you will be crying for hank waching an average goalie. watch your mouth when you talk about THE KING
@johnnyb3910 @DubiLeetch @MiddleSwine @Say my Name @scrangersfan @HJB91 well said, the issue is the money down the line (2017-2019) thats the only issue. right now there is no piece the rangers could get for him to make them better.
how quickly everyone forgets what this guy has done for us, players on washington called his game 7 last year the best game they ever saw a goalie play. simply put, we would be a first round exit last year if not for him.
@DubiLeetch @MiddleSwine @Say my Name @scrangersfan @HJB91 i dont disagree, but the counter point would be that a) the Penguins have won more cups than us in the past 30 years. Yes, the majority of championship teams have their goalie get hot in the playoffs, but that doesnt mean he has to be a Vezina winner. b) (the bigger point) Richter didn't play during the salary cap. just looking at pure numbers, the essence to being a winning team is to score more goals than you allow. So its like Moneyball, where do you spend that money to make that happen? Hank is looking for $6-8 million and is playing like this. One could argue that you would be better served paying a no-name rookie on an entry level deal to put up a 3.00 GAA if you could spend the money on scoring more goals.
@MiddleSwine @Say my Name @scrangersfan @HJB91 this is too fn funny!!!!!!!! ya'll are idiots, name me one other scenario where a team trades there best player and gets better?? please tell me. who cares when youv been a ranger fan since, did they deal richter for prospects? no he was huge part of cup run. where is this not needing a goalie coming from?? ask pittsburgh how it goes when you don have a goalie... they have 2 of the top 5 players in the world and cant win a damn cup!!!! the one year they did guess what fleury played sick!
@Say my Name @scrangersfan @HJB91 Part of that could be attributed to the high number of starts he made, espeically earlier in his career. Riding him down the stretch and forcing him into positions where he, and the team in front of hims was tired. It's tough to keep your stats up when you're constantly a 6th-9th place team.
But you're right, he's a top 10 goalie in the league, and he has stretches where he gets to caught up in himself. He's currently playing like a $3-$4 mil/year goalie. In all reality he probably deserves somewhere around 5, with the max that the rangers should offer is a 6.5 he's making now. Anything more would be better spent on forwards, building a team that can get the GPG up over 3, atleast.
@Say my Name @scrangersfan @HJB91 Thank you, thank you, thank you. The mindset of certain Rangers fans that Hank is untouchable is absurd. I've been a Rangers fan since 1990/1991. Well before Hank, and I'll still be a fan after Hank. Giving him a huge contract would be a gigantic albatross on the franchise and it's not worth it.