According to the New York Times, last night the New York City Council voted 47 to 1 to extend Madison Square Garden’s special operating permit for a decade — not in perpetuity, as the owners of the Garden had requested.
Here's City Council Speaker Christine Quinn on the vote...
“This is the first step in finding a new home for Madison Square Garden and building a new Penn Station that is as great as New York and suitable for the 21st century. This is an opportunity to reimagine and redevelop Penn Station as a world-class transportation destination.”
The Dolan family has sunk nearly $1 billion in renovating "The Garden" over the last three seasons to bring one of the oldest arenas in the NHL up to today's standards.
Back in 2012, the New York Times (H/T James Wrabel) floated the idea of relocating MSG to the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center.
In the past, a move across the street to the James A. Farley Post Office was considered an option as well, before the Dolans ultimately decided to stay put and renovate the Garden at its current location.
Deadspin adds that when the permit comes up again, MSG will have the right to re-apply.
If MSG is forced to move it'll be the fifth location for the "World's Most Famous Arena."
...after spending almost a billion dollars there is no way the Dolans are going down without a fight. I can't imagine they're used to hearing the word "no" too often, so don't expect this to go away anytime soon.
...having said that, the Dolans always knew there was a real possibility of this happening so they really don't have anyone to blame but themselves if they are forced to move and essentially throw away $1 billion.
...if you think ticket prices are high now, I can't even comprehend what they'll be if the Dolans need to finance another brand new arena. Ugh.
so lets get this straight....instead of spending money on a new stadium, the dolans will spend just as much money fighting having to move and then have to build a new stadium anyway...now thats a real justification for raising ticket prices...the real question here though is where is there land for a new stadium in Manhattan? if we look over to football a few years back, remember the proposed west side stadium? yeah we all remember how that turned out....this is a lot of talk about wanting to improve penn station and wanting to do it at the expense of the garden, but in reality, the overall cost and transformation will probably scare people away from wanting to do this...and why does the garden have to move, why cant they move penn station? thats the place that needs the real work!
I'm still fuming about this topic - just thinking about how many of you out there think its perfectly okay to try and force a privately owned business out of their privately owned facility by not continuing their "special operating permit" is infuriating.
Christine Quinn is a douchebag who doesn't understand a damn thing about business. She will destroy NYC. This will never happen and if it does - shame on our local government - not the Dolans who renovated MSG on their own dime without any kind of subsidies - what would be NYC's reason for not renewing the permit?? Talk about not renewing the permit is complete bullshit and a disgraceful violation of our free market economy. I am not a fan of the Dolans but for anyone to spend $1B on fixing an arena and then have the government not extend their permit 10 years later - because the government thinks they have a better use - we might as well call ourselves communists if there's anyone here who can agree that government should be able to make such a decision. I apologize for getting all political on this blog but this statement from Quinn us truly absurd and obviously would impact the Rangers.
Short sightedness = hockey execs (or maybe sports execs in general) equation proven accurate yet again. So maybe this means they will get an updated ice surface that won't wilt every time the temp goes over 80 - that was almost funny watching the pucks jump a foot in the air during the Boston series, though the players weren't laughing
Couldn't happen to a more douchebag person than Dolan. u would think they would have known this would happen and spent that money on a new construction and played two seasons at Izod center barf while being built. Arrogance I guess thinking they could get away with it
The garden isn't going anywhere. It generates way to much in tax revenue alone for the city/state to move it without a viable alternative ready to go. What can you put there that could replace almost 20,000 people congregating in such a small space on so many nights between Hockey and basketball and concerts (the colgate games not withstanding)? Nothing. It's all just posturing by the city for the impending negotiations.
And the Dolan's? Jimmy isn't giving up his toys so you can forget that. And the Dolans know that the city can't afford to lose two storied franchises as well as the biggest concert venue in the world to that swamp across the river. Don't worry, the Garden isn't going anywhere.
I'd honestly be happy with a new stadium provided it was not in the Meadowlands. Some of the new arenas are just amazing to watch a hockey game in. Also, being on top of the busiest train station does not help create good ice. All that heat rising from the tunnels below cannot be great for ice. By that time the arena will be over 50 years old anyway and ready for a nice retirement, renovation or not. And 50 years is still a good run for a major venue, especially one as busy as MSG.
What a freaking moron Dolan is...I knew this was going to happen over a year ago an he didn't? This is NYC's retribution for Dolan not letting the Jets build their stadium on the West Side Rail yards. Dolan's laughing all the way to the bank as he bilks us for more and more money. Eff you Jimmy crackheadcorn
Here's my thinking: If MSG is getting evicted in 10 years, (obviously) they plan to ask for an extension of their permit. In 11 years, the Rangers may not have started construction of a new arena, hoping for an extension at the current location - we could be bumming ice from the Devils or the Islanders...
If... And it's still a big if. The rangers have to build a new arena from scratch, the first thing is it would cost probably double if not more than what the renovations cost. So you are looking at 2 billion dollars probably at its minimal cost. If this were to happen, there is no way the city does not end up paying for a significant portion of this. If the dolans were told by NY to pay for the entire arena, they would probably pick everything up and move to Seattle.
They should have left the garden the way it was. Now Dolan just wasted a billion dollars. No big deal right?
Let's look at the bright side, if the City puts up a good fight and really pisses off the Dolans, they may decide they've had enough of this sports ownership stuff and sell the rights to the teams and venue. Then the Messier/Ewing/Puff Daddy group can swoop in and it will rain Cups, NBA titles, and mega-concerts for years to come. And it will be good.
From what the article stated, the NYR have ten years left in MSG before they have to move to new digs. If ticket prices are where they are now, you're gonna need to take out a second mortgage to afford them in a new arena.
Maybe the Dolans can get some city/state financing this time. That can also slow down the process, but it's not like they can threaten to move the teams out of the city as other teams have done. They did the renovations on their own dime, right?
@mlsranger You cannot move Penn Station because of the Skyscrappers and tunneling requirements. It is more cost effective to move MSG. However, I guarantee that MSG will remain where it is and Penn Station will also be upgraded.
@HJB91 "On their own dime" ??????????????? Obviously you are not a season ticket holder !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ticket prices up %40 in last 3 years to "fund" The transformation.................
The power of eminent domain, do not worry the Dolan's will receive the Fair Market Value of the property should they be forced to move.
@FREE LINDBERG The Barclays Center cost 5 Billion to build. I would imagine its at least around there (side note: paying 20% of that for renovations...?!?!?!)
@FREE LINDBERG Not sure how you could say 2 billion dollars...the renovations were more in the ballpark of $850 million. New Yankee Stadium was slightly upwards of 1 billion and Citi Field was probably around there too... The Garden would be a smaller venue and I would imagine they would design to bring many of the things from the old one to the new one to cut down on costs.
But there is no way in hell Dolan doesn't hire the best lawyers and fight. there's just no way.
@FREE LINDBERG Pulling numbers out of our asses is fun!
@gravey94 You do have a great imagination Gravy,
@queensbee I'd pee on him.
@BrandonFranz Yes, they did. My advice to the Dolans is to start attending fundraisers for all the city council members.
It was on their own dime compared to other arena/stadium builders who beg for public funding through taxes or bonds. If they raise the prices afterward, that's their prerogative, and as HJB91 said, they would have to lower the prices if the tickets weren't being sold, right?
Actually I am a season ticket holder. It is still at their own risk - they laid out the money. If you feel the ticket prices are more than they are worth - then don't buy them. Consumers dictate prices not business owners. If they were just ripping us off - then we'd all be idiots - right? Apparently they haven't had a hard time selling tickets.
Well, we aren't even talking about eminent domain here - we are talking about the city forcing them out through other means - by letting their "special operating permit" expire.
The garden would also be in the middle of the city, construction would cost way more than building up in the Bronx.
Yea but its safe to say it will be an expensive project if it happens. But hank will be gone by then so it's way in the future
@FREE LINDBERG What will cost more is for you and i, being fans because it is in the middle of the city. Building materials from china, labor from the unions won't vary much in price because of location of south midtown manhattan and bronx.
@FREE LINDBERG I work in Develoment and Real Estate, no it wouldn't...
@FREE LINDBERG City doesn't just pay for it. Will likely go up for a public vote, similar to the Coliseum with Islanders, and I can tell you it'll get voted down as threats of increased taxes will turn out the no votes.