A blog post has been making its way around Rangersland lately about whether the Flames should pursue Marc Staal.
While on the surface, it seems like an absolutely ridiculous premise, especially when the author wonders if the Flames can "grab him for pennies on the dollar." But is it really that far fetched?
Flames Nation points to Staal as a potential target because of the Rangers current cap situation along with the former 2005 first round pick's recent rash of serious injuries and his drop on the Rangers depth chart...
"Marc Staal seems to be the best option. He has battled significant injuries over the last few seasons and seems to be slipping down the depth chart. Staal broke into the league as a capable defensive defender after being chosen 12th overall by NYR in 2005, but has since lost his spot on the top pairing to Ryan McDonagh and Dan Girardi...Staal's value to the Rangers has been significantly lowered by the emergence of McDonagh and Girardi. Outside of a shut-down role and given his price point, Staal isn't terribly useful because he is fairly limited offensively (although he has spent some time on the PP and scored more than five goals twice in his career). He would be a decent enough 2nd pairing anchor for a guy like Del Zotto, but at $3.97M per year (with the real dollars escalating to $5.45M by 2014-15), it seems a steep price to pay for Sather and company, especially given their current budgetary needs."
...it's always hard to hear the truth about a home grown guy, but I have to say I agree with a lot of what is being said here. Even if Staal is able to prove in the preseason that his injured eye is not a deterrent, I think he is someone who could be expendable if the Rangers find themselves needing cap room this season.
...for as good as Staal has been with the Rangers, and make no mistake he has been good, I'm always left wanting more. Maybe I just expected too much from a 12th overall pick who was supposed to be the best Rangers two-way defenseman since Leetch, but let's face it, his offense has never materialized and there have been way too many nights when he has not been the shutdown the defensman the Rangers needed him to be. I mean, would you seriously put him in the same category as the top shutdown guys in the league such as Chara? Injuries have obviously marred his development the last two years, but even before the concussion I never really felt Staal's game improved from year to year.
...Girardi and McDonagh's play the last two years have destroyed any chance Staal might have to crack the top defensive pairing for the Rangers, making his contract not such the bargain it once was and one that Sather could be willing to move if the right offer came across his desk.
...if you look at what the Rangers problem has been the last five years, it's been on the offensive end. The power play specifically. And obviously Staal has been one of the culprits as he hasn't sniffed a 10-goal season in his career while scoring a measly six total power play goals in his 388 games as a Ranger.
...so I ask you this, if the Rangers find themselves needing cap space after the Stepan signing and the Flames dangled a top prospect like LW Sven Baertschi or even a 25-goal scorer in LW Curtis Glencross, who has two-years left at $2.55M per, for Staal do you honestly feel Sather wouldn't seriously contemplate that offer? Just remember, the Rangers didn't lose to the Bruins because they gave up too many goals it was because they didn't score enough?
Staal's eye is fine. It was a convenient cover for the concussion he suffered in Game 3 against the Caps. Coming off the serious concussion from the previous year, any talk of a new concussion was off the table. His eye had recovered from the trauma or he would not have dressed for that game in the first place. So his vision in that eye isn't 20-20? That's what contact lenses are for. The real concern regarding Staal going forward is his ability to take getting dinged, not his eye.
wow agreeing with an assessment from a blog whose writer probably watched marc staal a total of ZERO times this past season. not improving year to year? how about eight points in 12 games this past february. don't be such a homer delury. and when is the last time jay feaster made a move that actually made sense for the flames? you must be on meth if you think trading staal for glencross or baerteschi or a combination of any calgary flames players or prospects is a good idea. cap will go up in 2014, so pump the brakes with this firesale on our core guys. what a disappointing post from a guy who claims to live and breathe blueshirt hockey.
Staal will get his top spot back making Girardi expendable. I can see staal bouncing back and MDz stepping up in new system. Mcilrath could make team or get some action this season and be on team in 2014 full time.
Del Zotto is the defenseman on the ledge and available in a trade; not Staal. This opening was made with the acquisition of John Moore and, by most accounts, Staal was playing his best hockey ever as a Ranger prior to his eye injury. In terms of defense, he is as good as Chara as a shut-down defenseman, but we would all take Chara over Staal for his physical and offensive attributes. There is also a difference between a player being "injury-prone" and being unlucky; Staal's career shows no resemblance to a body that is injury-prone -- a puck into the eye is simply bad luck.
Staal won't be traded - Del Zotto's days are numbered, particularly if McDonagh's offensive contributions increase and/or Moore shows consistency the first half.
If Marc Staal is close to 100 percent healthy, it would not be advisable to trade him.
Trade Girardi or MDZ first if a roster dman regular absolutely must be traded for cap.
Healthy ,Staal is a true game breaker when he is on his game.Trading him would set the entire team back.
If u deal him, who slots as the 3rd d? Mdz? Plz. It would leave a massive hole on the d. If they are seriously in need of cap space( and i think they ran all the numbers in july), They should've canned richards. Cant score goals? Where wad yne 6 million dollar man? Oh yeah, scratched for the last two games. Traded stall is a bad idea imo.
I'm not gonna say this is a bad post, but after thinking on it for a bit, I definitely disagree with it. Before his injury, Staal was definitely turning things up. While it reamains to be seen if he can come back and do it again, he should not be on the chopping block. An injured Staal is still much better than MDZ. If anyone on D should be moved, it's probably MDZ.
I have felt that Slats plan all along has been to deal either MDZ or Staal. Obviously Staal has the greater value of the 2. I felt that he played the best hockey of his career before he went down with the eye and was becoming that shut down guy so it would be a tough loss. I think trades should be made to get nastier and more physical. We got guys who can put the puck in the net, they just need the room on the ice to do ISP.
I might be in this rare camp, but having insane defensive depth is a GOOD thing last time I checked. Having A LHD of McD-Staal-and Moore is supposed to be a serious advantage. I could argue we'd have swept the Caps and beat the Bruins with Staal in the lineup healthy. He's our best PK forward, meaner than McD, much faster than Girardi, and he makes those big strong forwards like Malkin and Ovechkin absolutely miserable. And he's cap friendly! Not even 4 million. If we want to trade someone, start with Boyle (I'd rather he didn't get traded but that's where you begin if you want to free up cap space). HORRIBLE Idea to trade Staal, this is the best defense that the Rangers have had in YEARS, lets not fuck it up. Our D is our strength, let it be our strength. Also, there's nothing I'd want from Calgary except Baertschi and Monahan which I'm sure even someone as dumb as Jay Feaster would give up. So NO, I'd keep Staal thanks.
I hate what I am reading. If you want to talk trade, trade del Z. He is a disappointment, even when healthy. Staal is one of the leaders on this team - he is a core guy.
Guys for goodness sake....` Move Girardi... the guy was awful last year when not paired with top end talent like Mac... He got burned on more than one occasion. I love him but if we are talking about Staal or Girardi... Stall is 10 times the player Girardi will ever be... when healthy.
Worst post of the year... sorry Kevin.
A) Staal is better than Girardi (and they carry basically the same cap hit, not mention Girardi is a UFA at the end of the year)
B) He said he is 100 percent... and if he is, he is by far the best defenseman on the team with Mac still growing
C) He is a leader on the team. His teammates follow him and respect him. We should be looking to extend him... not move him for "pennies on the dollar"... that is a JOKE
I don't think there's a single guy on the Flames roster that I would want as a Ranger. If the Rangers are in win now mode then Baertschi doesn't make sense. And Glencross for Staal? That seems nuts. When Staal is healthy, he is better than Girardi. And I love Girardi.
There are lots of these hits against key players on opposing teams:
Very interesting. I'd trade him for Glencross in a second. We've got the depth on defense now to do it.
I always get blasted by my friends who are Ranger fans whenever I make an assessment of a NYR player. The thing is that they watch Ranger games and they tend to judge the NYR players against other NYR players. (It is often hard to see even how good the other team's players are when you are rooting against them).
Anyway, when you start looking at other games and watching how the top tier players perform and then look at the NYR top players at those positions you start to see things differently. This is when you start to see the NYR as a middle of the pack team with an outstanding goalie.
Staal would be hard to lose as he is pretty solid - he is not great. He is good. When on his game he positions himself well and uses his long reach well. He has close to zero offense - he is not in the same arena as Leetch, Zubov, nor in the same game as even McD, or Moore. While large, he does not play a physical game - though he will finish checks on the boards, he does not offer much in front of his own net.
I have been wishing the NYR would have traded Staal before his injury for quite some time as I thought the NY hype would have brought back a bit more than what he was worth. Now they will be lucky to get his value. Still...he is not by any means terribly difficult to replace even before his injury let alone now.
we haven't had him for almost 2 years now. if it happens it happens. I love him but if we could get some picks and prospects that are out of this world than is day he's expendable.
We kept Richards to see what he can do this year(I agree with that decision by the way). I have more faith in a Staal comeback than Richards hes young and can adjust better plus hes got Ulf behind him. As far as offense is concerned we should wait and see what comes about with the new freedom he will have in AV's system.
People have to detach their feelings from homegrown players and look at this from a different perspective: If Staal can net you a package of assets that helps the team in any way, it has to be considered. Teams have maybe 1-2 'untouchable' players. Hank is the only untouchable on the Rangers -- everyone else is up for grabs.
I think we have to see what transpires between now and the opening roster and cap number. I still think Boyle will be moved for a pick and Asham & Powe will be elsewhere. If Staal is healthy and playing well he will always be a great trade chip and there will be lots of teams that will want him. Can you say Carolina? Guess my point is to trade him to create cap space may be shortsighted. Besides, no team is going to give anything of value until he proves he can handle a regular NHL shift. He will be on the opening night roster, another injury aside.
Both of those guys are LW's and the Rangers have a log jam at LW. They have a need on the right side. Though if Calgary were serious enough about Staal to offer up Baertschi then I have to say you make that deal any day. He's a future star 2 way forward. I can't see Sather trading Staal this year though with all the uncertainty behind Girardi and wether he may not be resigned. Staal is a better skater and although both he and McDonagh are lefties, both are top pairing defenseman. What happens then, if Staal were traded away and Girardi walked or was deemed too beaten up to pay the money he were seeking? He has a lot of miles on him and a lot of blocked shots. I don't know if trading Staal is a great idea, unless a "Knock your Socks off" trade came across your desk.
This is absurd. Yea let's get rid of a great defense man because he isn't as good as Chara. Makes sense. Staal is better than Girardi when fully healthy. After them and Mac, the other 3 defensemen are average.. although Moore has good potential. We saw how much we had to rely on G and Mac without Staal. Imagine how screwed we'd be without Staal and one of our remaining top 4 defensemen got hurt.
I don't like the idea much but it all depends on the return... As it's from the Flames I can't really think of anyome except for Baertschi or possibly Monahan I'd have. But I don't think the Flames would be willing to pay that much. Something to watch though...
Ok, a few things to go over here.
As far as the money is concerned, this author (not you Kevin) seems to be confusing real dollars and cap dollars. I nearly hit the floor when this guy put referred to Sather and the Rangers as "budgetary". No fan gives two you-know-whats about Staal's salary in 2014-15. Besides when it comes to cap hit vs. actual salary that's called value especially in the last year.
Trading him as part of a cap dump makes absolutely zero sense. You obviously aren't taking salary back so Glencross is out. I'd be stunned if Calgary traded Baertschi especially for Staal which would be a massive overpayment on Calgary's part.
There are 10 other options at the Rangers disposal to clear cap space to get Stepan under for the season and this isn't one of them. Trading Staal can be something we can discuss next summer if Staal has a season that would increase his trade value from where it is right now.
i would do this trade in a heartbeat. to touch on your point about the boston series, Staal wasn't even playing. NYR have a solid defensive core no matter who the coach is, but I feel having had torts as a coach then bringing in AV will definitely benefit the team.
However, a few points..
1. Calgary might only do that trade if it is some sort of "sign + trade" due to Staal's pending FA status after this season. Otherwise, the threat of him bolting to Carolina or who knows where after a year is present. And i don't know about you, but remember Staal is UFA not RFA. He will definitely get at least $5+ on the open market.
2. Calgary has several high end prospects in Monahan, Baertschi, Gaudreau, Klimchuk, and Corban Knight, so that might indeed make Baertschi somewhat expendable. especially with Calgary's dire need of a consistently solid defensive.
3. a straight up Staal for Baertschi trade might seem weak in ways from both sides. From Feester's view (although whoever knows what the hell that guy is doing!), he might see Baerstchi as a potential elite scoring winger and Staal an above average shutdown defenseman. It really depends on how a GM values each of those positions. Sather might be licking his chops at this one, especially with McIlrath coming up in the next year or two, and Baertschi having 2 years left on his ELC at a cap hit of $1.425.
My conclusion: there might have to be more to this type of trade, but I truly do believe Staal is expendable if it means getting a potential all star offensive talent like Baertschi.
@LSLHOCKEY How is criticizing Staal being a homer? Isn't that the exact opposite. And I watched Staal once this past season. Get it right.
@Lordstanleybroadway I agree with you assessments - that is if MDZ does not get traded. I suggested that Girardi might get moved months ago and was read the riot act by some of the fans here lol, however he works best in a Torts type system and if we are to get what we need here, which is more physical players up front and maybe a power forward who can score we have to give something up and Girardi's trade value exceeds MDZ I do believe. Staal is a top shut down guy who was playing his best hockey before he went down last year. His vision will be good enough to continue his upward trend. I'll always remember the epic battles with guys like Ovi.
@Betweentheworlds Staal is physical and nasty....
@FREE LINDBERG who's this fictional RHD we have that takes his spot? Stralman?
I think McDonagh is the best d-man on the team, he actually brings some offense with his shut down style
@Wallace1 Twice as good as Girardi
@Bvooch are you joking? Glencross is pretty great and very cap friendly but you'd trade a top 10 shutdown defender for a midrange forward? I'm glad you're not the GM.
@Bvooch sorry.. but that is a joke right? has to be sarcasm? you can't be this idiotic? A 26 year old number one defenseman for one player that is a 3rd liner at best and old.... Come on dude
@TheWrage Rick Nash and Ryan Callahan, and now Mcdonagh probably fall into that category
@Joe Fallacaro A lot of people say that but it's not going to happen. Not this time of the year. On top of that too many people put their name on DZ when they drafted him to just give up on him when he's 23 years old. He played tough mins(23:10) last year and while injured. With a new coach I'm sure they wanna see what he can/can't do in camp before making a decision on him.
@thenyrblogneill If the Flames offered Bartschi for Staal, you make that trade any day. Today or next summer. I doubt that trade offer comes across Sathers desk any time soon.
The Rangers can clear cap space by putting 1 or more players on waivers. If they clear waivers they can then be sent to Hartford as a buried contract. The new CBA allows teams to send any player making less than $925,000 to the AHL without a cap charge. A contract over that has a cap charge on a sliding scale. Asham(75K) Pyatt would have a cap hit of ($625K) if demoted and once he cleared waivers. Boyle would have a ($725) cap charge. So Sather has a few moves to be made before having to clear an impact player like Staal to sign Stepan.
The Rangers are also carrying 8 defenseman right now. Once the season starts, Johnson can be sent down and the LTIR money from the Callahan and Hagelin injuries will give some play. I believe Sather can also use 10% (6.43mil) over the salary cap until the season starts
@zanderosenbluth ::keyword potential:: this isn't the time for "potential". We are in win now mode. I'm only okay with wanting Baertshi because i believe he's going to breakout this season. This talk about futures needs to stop however.
@zanderosenbluth i want a Cup... not a prospect. Now that Staal is healthy and ready to dominate we get rid of him, when we are in win now mode? NOOOO
@zanderosenbluth That's never going to happen. If it came along you make that trade any day from the Rangers point of view. However, if the Rangers moved Staal and Girardi was not retained after next year. What then? All of a sudden the Rangers top 4 don't look so hot. Girardi has a lot of miles on him and at age 30 may not look so attractive to Sather at 4 mil per year. He's getting 3.325 now and will surely be looking for a raise on that.
Good point Penaltyshot, I'd much rather see them get the grit they need through dealing MDZ and/or their soft 3rd/4th liners
@Centerman21 @thenyrblogneill I'm not saying Sather wouldn't accept a trade for Baertschi, just Calgary would be over paying for Staal in that hypothetical deal. I said during last week's spreecast that there is another move that has to be made that Ranger fans will be speculating about all summer and this is another part of it, as unrealistic as it sounds. If anything one of Powe or Asham might be dealt for a 7th round pick. That's how I think this will end.
@JoshKaye I'm talking about the Flames blogger that wrote the original story.
@IcyCup oh that's my bad. thought for some reason he had 1 year left. thinking of Girardi's contract.
@zanderosenbluth @IcyCup Another reason right there to not trade Staal. Imagine if we moved Staal this offseason, and then 12 months from now were in the same position where we don't have the cap space to resign Girardi. Suddenly we're left with just McD as a top pair guy, and we're watching two home grown talents being shut-down D men for other teams.