We're Screwed (Updated: Really Screwed)
Bettman: NHLPA "stonewalled" and did not move off latest proposal.
— Chris Botta (@ChrisBottaNHL) August 31, 2012
Original Post:
Don Fehr: "the proposal we made today was not accepted."
— Renaud P Lavoie (@RenLavoieRDS) August 31, 2012
Don Fehr: "at this point the talks are off."
— Renaud P Lavoie (@RenLavoieRDS) August 31, 2012
Pat Leonard at the Daily News adds Fehr says talks have stalled because the NHL feels players must be prepared for "immediate reset" in player revenue and they're not.
There's no plan for the two sides to meet again on the CBA or any other economic issue.
...so glad I started the blog back up again for nothing.
...damn Bettman putting me in a bad mood going into the Labor Day Weekend.
Newest Ranger Jeff Halpern weighed in on the CBA negotiations before today's meeting...
"It's more than [revenue] percentages on the line," Halpern told CSNWashington.com. "It's setting the table for players down the road. We're trying to find something that works without completely giving in. At some point, labor unions have to make a stand and that's where we are right now."
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Wouldnt the best course of action for the fans be to organise noisy public protests outside the arenas? To the owners its just business-and we already know they think hockey fans will come back no matter what. A few thousand people threatening to boycott and some news cameras might send a message.
@craig_atherton To the owners, it has to be just business. It's their jobs. It's how they feed themselves. Granted they might be feeding themselves caviar, but it's still how they feed themselves. Owning a hockey team has to be a good investment for the owners, and if it's not a good investment, they can put their money elsewhere. Owning a hockey team might be alot sexier then owning a tire factory, but if the tire factory makes money, and the hockey team doesn't, it's still the better bet.
@BuckarooClub Yeah I understand it has to be a business, but at the minute they seem to think that a lockout will make them more money in the long run because fans will come back no matter what. Unless the fans send a message you can expect lockout threats every time the CBA expires because it makes financial sense to take a small loss now to save millions per player per year afterwards.
In 2004 when the NHL last locked out their players I got to discover and enjoy prospect hockey. While I feel bad for many of you I urge you to take a look around and see if there is an AHL, ECHL, NCAA or CHL team near you.Want to get a better return on your dollar then go experience real hockey as I get to. It is more than just the game it is the fan involvement as the lower in ranks you go the harder the teams work to earn your money.For those of you who get NBC Sports Network, CBS Sports Network and the Big Ten then you will get college hockey to watch this year.
Realy. What can be done to force action by both sides? I am in total agreement- how can the owners say the players make too much money when it's them that make the offers and sign the checks. Pick a team- the owners either have decided not to make any serious investments and decide the league will bail them out- this is Bettman's plan at its best regaring expansion- or they will spend what they have irresponsbly-ie the Rangers of days gone by, current Fliers, Minnesotamay have done well by their team and their fans but still thats a lot of money- You also have that moron on Long Island looking to grow an empire off the taxpayers without investing in the product he offers. So---- Those who can do, those who can't cry the players make too much . What about this- follow the principle of MLB. Set up a cap in the middle not 70, not 50 ad let it grow as revenues go up. If a team goes $60 million then it pays an equal ammout into a pool. The Yankees- no hating on the Yankees- make that work and MLB works. Lower revenue generating teams get some funding from those that can aford it- You can even apply a hard cap at somewhere around $75 mil. Let's just get this done!
Sorry for the rant but I don't want to lse this season and damnit we are the fans who's money supports the whole system- and we real fans won't go away- we need a way to leverage our dollars.
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I've made this point before, but I think it's worth repeating. Telling the owners that it's their problem if they aren't making enough money, because they are the ones who pay the players is the same as blaming concussions on the NHLPA. I mean, the players are the ones who throw the dirty hits on each other. In both cases, competition and desire to win clouds judgement and rules need to be put in place to keep things in line.
In the case of the owners, this is REALLY the only place they can sit down and talk about their problem, because agreeing on how to control salaries as a group outside of the CBA would be collusion.
As far as comparing it to baseball, I think that's a real hard thing to do. Baseball is THE sport. Alot of people tell you it's the NFL, but the NFL has everything going for it with it's TV friendly set up and schedule. In the meantime, baseball is playing 162 games, many of them on weekday afternoons, and lasting close to 3 hours, and it still reigns as the American pastime. Alot of that has to do with the successful business model that owners have created over the years, playing off the popularity and familiarity of the sport among the general public, and making a ballgame as much of an experience as a sporting event.
Baseball had the advantage of rising to the top when the idea of becoming a rich for being an athlete didn't exist. The NHL, while it's certainly not the new kid in town, has always existed as a bit of a fringe sport. Rather then simply asking for the biggest slice of the pie they can get, I'd love to see they players offer to a smaller slice, if the owners invest more in making the pie bigger. That's what's in the fans best interest.
@WayneGs Sadly really nothing we can do. Although NHL and players better know that if there is a lockout they will lose a large part of their fanbase. Which may destroy the league.
Players like Sidney and Ovi should threaten to play in Europe and not come back for a few years. I know there are complications to this but that would be awesome and may put a fire under some butts.
This might be the end of hockey for me...I'm 36 and I have been a die hard Rangers fan my entire life....I do not blame the players at all for what is going on and about to happen (lockout)...I blame Gary Bettman 100%....Has their been a commissioner in any other major sport that with 3 lockouts under their watch???
Going forward, should their be a 3rd lockout, and it certainly looks like that will happen, I would have to be a fool to comeback and pay money to watch hockey again...This is by far and away my favorite sport and team, but by continuing to come back to hockey everytime this moron Bettman, decides lets lock them out until the players give up their pay, which by the way, the owners agreed was fair market value and a good idea...its just nonsense...
Im still hoping they get a deal done, but if this should cost the fans any more then a few weeks of hockey, the NHL and Gary Bettman will not get another dollar from me.
On a side note, how much with Mr. Dolan be reducing ticket prices if the CAP is brought done from $70 mil to $50.....If he is going to save $20mil then the fans should get a break on the cost of tickets, right?
@Fleisch I love how people take it so personally. If GM locked out its employees would you never buy a GM car again? Doubtful? You probably wouldn't even take notice. It's just business.
@mprestop Its billionaires arguing with millionaires, not a bunch of blue collar factory workers...So i couldnt care less about how it hurts the players or the owners pockets... I always take notice when any company lays off their employees....
However, Its the fans who continue to get punished by not getting to watch the sport they love, and value as entertainment....
These owners and Bettman, keep talking about how its about the fans.....if thats so, then stop screwing them!!!! After they rollback the players salaries, and increase their percentage in revenue, are they going to roll back the ticket prices. concession prices? Doubt it!!!
Bottom like, I keep buying into it, keep coming back and handing them my money....Thats done with another lockout!!
@mprestop I 100% agree with you, its about everyone making money, and I am on the players side as well. However, I dont have to continue to support it.
Lastly, When Time Warner Cable and MSG decided to blackout games for the month of January so they could argue money...I cancelled Time Warner and got Verizon Fios...
If Charmin does right by me, I will buy their product, if they dont, I will wipe my ass with something else...
I guess next year my money for season tickets will go to the NY Giants!!!
@Fleisch Maybe it's my economics degree and my understanding of labor law, but I just don't get bent out of shape about labor negotiations. It's part of doing business in a market.
Yeah, the owners and the players in this market are arguing over numbers that are hard for you and me to comprehend, however, it's still "negotiations" and its 2 parties that need to come to a compromise to sort it out. I know it feels like there should be more loyalty to fans, but plain and simple, it's a business. Like charmin toilet paper, or General Motors, nhl players and owners enter the market to maximize their value and to make money. Charmin doesn't make delicately soft toilet tissue to make you feel good, they do it to make money. The same way the New York Rangers and the NHL don't exist for public good, they exist to make money.
Also keep in mind that there is loyalty - the players and the NHL do a ton of work for charity. Just because it's on a grander scale in terms of dollars shouldn't cloud it too much. I'm on the side of labor in this case, but I understand that negotiations are tough. I don't think the league or players hate their fans, but they are looking for their interests first, just as you or I would if we were in a market trying to maximize our value.
@Fleisch Don't hold your breath. Love that the owners are looking for salary rollbacks after they're the ones who gave them out. Huh?
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@KevinDeLury @Fleisch I work at a Fortune 100 company. In management. But I'm firmly on the players' side in this farce. The irresponsibility, hubrus and disrespect on display by the owners/league is just disgusting. These are some of the finest athletes in the world, who have a very short window for their careers in the sport they've played and loved since they were kids. And without them, THERE IS NO NHL. To ask them to roll back salaries on CONTRACTS THEY'VE ALREADY SIGNED IN GOOD FAITH is just outrageous.
@KevinDeLury Its insane!!! he is a raise and a new contract, but at the end of the CBA we are going to take it all back....makes perfect sense....AWFUL!!!
I don't understand... they're just ending talks? How can they just give up on the discussion? How can there be "no plan for the two sides to meet"? Are they crazy?
