Prospects Have Chance to Make Rangers
One of the best parts of the Rangers dedication to building the team from within, has been the willingness of the organization to trust top prospects to play major roles on the big club.In just the last three years we have seen Michael Del Zotto, Michael Sauer and Derek Stepan earn their way onto the Rangers roster out of camp, while others including Ryan McDonagh and Carl Hagelin were called-up before the halfway point of the season.
And obviously we all know about Chris Kreider's signing before last year's playoffs.
Now this year, a new crop of prospects will be looking to make an impression during training camp and hopefully find a spot on the opening night roster.
Those players include JT Miller, Christian Thomas, Ryan Bourque, Michael St. Croix and Marek Hrivik.
If the Rangers don't make another acquisition this offseason, there will be an open spot in the line-up for one of those guys to earn until Marian Gaborik returns from injury in November.
So, who has the best chance? Keep reading as Jim Cerny gave James Wrabel and I some insight on Twitter yesterday.
After saying Miller had the best chance of all the prospects to crack the roster out of camp, Cerny added this...
"I am very cautious in saying Miller might make team out of camp...he is only 19 & could be in Junior, AHL, or with #NYR..but very mature."
New CT Whale Assistant coach Jeff Beukeboom also addressed Miller's chances as well as Thomas' during a live chat on Blueshirts United yesterday...
"I would say he's (Miller) in the mix, I would say Thomas is definitely an option, but there will be a bunch of players that could be penciled in for a spot on the Rangers from the pool of prospects."
...i can't say it enough on the blog. Miller is my guy to get that roster spot. His game is perfect for Torts' system and he should excel. Having said that, he'll need to prove, at age 19, he's physically able to play against men 10 years older than he is.
...still don't think Thomas has enough skill to overcome his size to have a real shot at making the team. Was invisible during Traverse City and training camp last season.
Cerny also handicapped the undrafted free agent Hrivik's chances...
"a dark horse to make #NYR out of camp, BUT with Gaby hurt there will be open spot for him or Miller/Thomas/?"
...i'm definitely calling it right now, Hrivik will be the biggest surprise in camp. Not many Rangers fans know about this kid, but by the end of the preseason they will. He has size and hands to play at the NHL level. If I'm the Rangers, I have Hrivik be Nash's shadow throughout camp and soak everything in like a sponge. Nothing like learning from one of the best power forwards in the league.
For more on Hrivik, click here and here.
One player I left out because of his knee injury is Dylan McIlrath, who Beukeboom also discussed during the live chat...
"...unfortunately he is injured and I do not know the timetable on his recovery...I haven't really had the opportunity to spend time coaching him."
...this is a little concerning, because not only will McIlrath's development be curbed by the injury, Beukeboom's ability to coach him will be compromised as well. They will miss some very valuable time getting to know each other during training camp. Hopefully, once McIlrath returns they can make up for lost time quickly.
...who do you guys like to make the team out of camp? Leave your thoughts in the comments section.
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Dammit why didnt they have another traverse city tournament! I'm pulling for J.T.Miller he is a great two way player and could put the puck in the net. He led the Rangers in scoring in that tournament last year and was solid. Just needs to get stronger and gain more speed.
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one more thing. ranger evaluation of talent has definitely improved recently.
look at success of young players at nhl level. mcd, hagelin, sauer, stepan, mdz, kreider.
notice that zuccarello bolted to russia. do you think if an nhl team loved him, the rangers would not have traded him for anything ? the league is changing. the days of little pests is disappearing. hagelin is the exception, not the rule. when you have guys like kreider coming up with the same speed as hagelin, but with 50 lbs more, why would you want the little guy?
look at the last couple of ranger drafts. size and speed !!! nash - size and speed. if you're slow, and don't hit, not going to make it in the future league. these little guys get hurt too easy, and there are plenty of bigger guys who can catch them.
what do you want in a young player. size and speed. big fast d-men, and fast big power forwards.
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@KevinDeLury @sdocb Sorry Kevin if that is the case then you are already writing off Bourque, Thomas, and St, Croix who are all under 6'. The number 1 reason why smallish players don't get a real chance is because Tortorella lacks confidence in them.
Yes the Rangers have drafted for size but they also drafted players who have skill. If we are to accept sdocb's POV then Ryan Callahan (5'11) would never have made the Rangers.
Out of the 2004 NYR NHL draft only Callahan and Dubinsky made it as NYR and they were the smallest players drafted.
Zuccarello left for Russia because with just 2 years in NA that he would have been stuck signing a 2-way contract which would have only pay him between 75-100 G if he was sent to the AHL.
He didn't think the Rangers would let him just walk (proven when they QOed him) so he took the sure money in Europe.
@KevinDeLury @TheProspectpark @sdocb -- Thomas is hanging in there, because unlike Bourque, he has not been physically punished and repeatedly injured before reaching the NHL, but it remains doubtful he can make the jump at his size. I am curious what kind of camp he'll have after being invisible last year.
Also, Callahan is bigger than those guys ... there's a big difference between 5'9" and 5'11"
@TheProspectpark @sdocb I have already written off Thomas. Bourque, I'm coming close as well. St. Croix is the one guy I still like.
The difference between Callahan and these guys is he's always played a physical style of game that allowed him to succeed in the NHL.
Bourque is trying but his body has proved to be not able to hold up and Thomas is a sniper and has yet to show he has the physicality in his game to play at the next level.
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@KevinDeLury @sdocb -- except for the implication that Zuccarello was slow and didn't hit or that he got hurt easily. He did not and does not fit any of those characteristics. He was quick and remarkably tough and never got hurt except for taking a shot off the wrist -- same way Callahan got injured; does Callahan get hurt too easily?
There are definitely fewer spots for little guys, but Zuccarello is certainly an exception to your assessment. He might have caught on with an NHL team, but he was yet unproven in the league and received a fat offer from the KHL.
-- He did have an ankle injury earlier in the year while playing with the Whale -- notably not the result of body checks or physical play. Blocking Jordan Leopold's shot was the one serious injury he had, breaking his wrist back on March 23. I gotta agree with Jess from TheProspectpark , it's Torts that doesn't trust these guys.
Yes, I am a Zuccarello apologist. I really liked how he didn't shy away from the rough stuff, and he handled himself well with the big club.
This from your own James Wrabel writing for bleacherreport: "Before breaking his wrist, Zuccarello looked to be a player who could help the Rangers offense, particularly the power play. A playmaker by trade, Zuccarello, despite being generously listed at 5'7'', is skilled at finding open players in the offensive zone and delivers quick, crisp passes—something the Rangers get sloppy with occasionally, especially when moving the puck with a man advantage."
personally, i don't see the prospects getting the opening(s).
deveaux and newbury both had great season for ct whale. 60+ pts. both were lack luster when called up to nhl, but wouldn't be the first time that a player needed more time in minors. plus both add a dimension prospects don't have. they can hit and fight.
why would you want to bring prospect up for a couple of months (when gaborik gets back), to waste a trip to nhl as far as counting towards his contract, and to play 5-10 minutes per game. they belong in ahl first. let them light up the ahl, then bring them up. plus, let them learn how to play rangers hockey at ahl level, instead of possibly costing rangers games with mistakes.
@sdocb Legit concern for sure. All of the guys I mentioned could use more seasoning with the Whale. However, if they outplay other veteran prospects, they're going to get the spot.
@KevinDeLury @sdocb That being said a younger guy would have to seriously outplay a veteran prospect and show consistency especially on d ... I think the guy that shows he's the most capable in his own end gets the spot because Torts will not play someone who is a defensive liability (think triple OT and Bick alone at the end of the bench )
@JamesMauldin @KevinDeLury @sdocb -- Newbury is a career AHLer. He has been a leader in Hartford for years, but can't play in the NHL -- takes stupid penalties, makes soft mistakes. Still, he is serviceable and can fill-in for some games. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out ...
@KevinDeLury they have to significantly outplay vets like newbury or deveaux, or you're wasting a call up. plus newbury and deveaux have experience in the nhl, which makes them more likely. plus, and imo, both players hit hard and fight. definite positives in the eastern conference.
and i think one of those two will do much better next time around in the nhl now that they know what to expect.
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@KevinDeLury @sdocb http://www.forecaster.ca/thestar/hockey/player.cgi?3160
doesnt matter anyway because the panthers wont let him fly up to manhattan to play for us.
In Traverse, the group played as a team and reached the finals.. Some players take longer to mature... Martin St Louis is same size and I'm sure every team in NHL would welcome him with open arms not to mention he didn't blossom until late 20s
In Traverse, the group played as a team and reached the finals.. Some players take longer to mature... Martin St Louis is same size and I'm sure every team in NHL would welcome him with open arms not to mention he didn't blossom until late 20s
Just basing that on what I've seen so far during Traverse and training camp last year when he was virtually invisible. A lot easier to overcome size in OHL than the NHL.
IF they are going to keep a propect on the roster, I would imagine Borque and Thomas would be kept if they performed. I can't see them bringing up one of the projected offense guys to play 3rd or 4th line, especially since they are on the younger side. I would love to see Miller, but I think they leave him at the Whale for at least a half season. On the other side, I think this is V-Tank's time to shine if he's going to play for the Rangers. It's his for the taking, he just needs to bring his A game to camp.
@gravey94 If Valentenko shines for the Rangers, it seems it won't be until his KHL deal is up.
http://snyrangersblog.com/pavel-valentenko/buzz-pavel-valentenko-has-signed-in-russia/
I'm sure a prospect or two will turn some heads, but I also don't think we have to be prepared to see someone already with the team, like Hagelin, Step, or even *gasp* Chris Kreider, have a hiccup, not produce like we expected, and possibly get passed or used to fill a limited role.
I like the way we're setting up right now, I think we've brought in some cheap vets who an NHL ready young player should be able to pass to EARN a spot in the show. If the guys don't win 'em, let develop in the AHL - that's what it's there for.
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@BuckarooClub Didn't realize that. With Erixon gone, they're pretty thin down there on D. Maybe they'll get Redden to retire and then re-sign him at a more reasonable number...LOL!!
@gravey94 @BuckarooClub -- I agree the Rangers are a little thin on D, but I wholeheartedly disagree on Bourque and Thomas. Bourque with two concussions already and separate head and neck injuries may have a short career as it is. Thomas is just as small and this year's camp would have to be a 1000% improvement over last year. Miller and Hrivik have a better shot. Miller being a reasonably tough two-way player would seem to be the most readily playable. On the other hand, at only 19 he needs his time to develop. Tough call .....
@KevinDeLury @BuckarooClub @gravey94 The main reason why a prospect will most likely not make the team out of training camp is partly due to the uncertainty of the labor situation.
Even if the NYR open camp on time on September 21st, there is only one prospect who has a real chance to make the roster
Chris Kreider
The rest Bourque (bad year), Thomas (body not ready), Miller (last season end with wimper) and Hrivik (only one with legit chance but a long shot)
@gravey94 Keep forgetting about Valentenko. That guy went from almost making the team out of camp two years ago to almost an afterthought.
@KevinDeLury @gravey94 Since he came up again, I dug a bit deeper. He's not listed on cap geek for the Rangers either. Pretty sure he's done.
Not sure where the comment of Thomas size not being able to play in NHL.. He is same type of player like his father Steve and even though he played for the islanders he didn't do too bad
My concern, and I guess this is a good problem to have, is what if Miller/Hrivik/Thomas come and force their way into the lineup and prove that they should stay when Gabby comes back. Does that push a guy like Asham out of the lineup? What if Asham proves the Penguins fans right and surprises all of us? Does Pyatt move to the 4th line?
@VJD That's kinda the nice thing about having some of these vets back there - they're not gonna take it too hard if they take in a couple games from the press box in a numbers crunch. If Torts uses these guys effectively, I think they're gonna have plenty of chances to rotate nights off though. They all should be taking turns letting sore shoulders and swollen hands heal.
@BuckarooClub @VJD -- agreed: nice problem to have. Let's actually get to that problem first. We'll see what Asham can do. Rupp can sit some games, I think that actually might benefit him to be effective when he has to play.
@VJD Those things always work themselves out. There will be injuries and other players will struggle at times. Let's worry about that when the time comes. And like you say, it's a good problem to have.
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There's been less chatter about Hrivik this offseason but I have a feeling we'll see a lot from him this year. If not out of camp definitely by the halfway point. From what I understand he impressed during the scrimmages a few weeks back.
@KevinDeLury @KurtBalogh -- if he can toughen up along the boards and in the corners, it seems like he would have a good shot here
