Would You Give Up Staal, Stepan or AA for Weber?
Weber has two years to go before he can become an unrestricted free agent under the current CBA that expires before the start of 2012-13.
...i would do it for Staal or AA and a #1 but not Stepan. You all know my thoughts on Staal and I feel Stepan is a future superstar for the Rangers.
...what are your thoughts?
Brooks also feels that Brad Richards doesn't deserve to be the Rangers next captain and it should go to Ryan Callahan.
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I think any offer has to be equal to , or better then, the 4 #1's that Nashville gets for letting him go as a RFA next season. Staal and AA/Step eat up two of those, picks, if we could get Weber for two of those players and 2 #1's, I'd be all for it. I'd even include a 3rd #1 if that's what it took. With Weber in the mix, those are gonna be late, late picks anyway and we've got a pretty full cupboard to feed the pipeline.
Well, I see Erixon as the next (even better) Staal, so Staal+WW (to free cap space) + a 2nd rounder for Weber. He is, after all, a Norris candidate for many years ahead.
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Ummmmm no. Brooks REALLY must need to sell papers. This is beyond a pipe dream. 1) tying up a little bit less than half your cap space into 4 players Lundqvist gaborik Weber Richards is never a good idea, even if you were to trade Staal and girardi and others. 2) We need depth at defense. giving up staal and girardi would deplete us in that regard.
See the importance of drafting good players? It's very important so you don't have to build a contender by trades and free agency. Obviously it's not a perfect world where your whole team is built completely on draft picks, but you can definitely get your core players on draft picks like Staal, Callahan, Dubinsky, Lundqvist, Stepan, and Anisimov.
Just sit tight Ranger fans, as this team is finally ready to win big. There is no need to drastically change this team especially in the middle of August.
@KingBadaBing Shea Weber is the player Marc Staal becomes in our wildest dreams. Moving Staal for Weber at the core of the deal is a no-brainer. Weber is better then Staal. Weber also is the player we DON'T have in the system right now. Booming shot, physical, confident with the puck. Take your pick of our young players/prospects and you can find a guy who can/will replace Staal.
I honestly don't think Brooks offer is even CLOSE to enough to get it done though. If Nashville waits it out, and lets Weber go as an RFA after the season, they are looking at 4 #1's in return, and I think that's where you need to s
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Ok if you got rid of Staal Girardi and other players for weber (the other players don't matter at the moment) your pairings look like Weber-Del Zotto Sauer-Mcdonagh erixon-eminger.
That doesn't scare you depth wise?
@KingBadaBing I don't think there was talk of Staal and Girardi, just Staal or Giriardi. I would send them both if we had to though.
Whatever your lineup is, Weber is an improvement over Staal. If you're only sending Staal (like Brooks suggested) then your top pair is Weber-Girardi, and nothing else changes. If Nashville wants both players, I think you break up Sauer/McD put one with Weber and find a new partner for the other. I think 2nd pair with Sauer or McD could be a great fit for MDZ.
You've got remember them bringing in Weber changes our identity on D. We got alot tougher, and alot more relevant on the attack. Let Sauer and McD keep playing the Staal/Girardi give up the line and collapse into the zone game. Make sure they're back to cover and let Weber and MDZ be a bigger part of the offense. Now that we've invested in our O, we need some guy on D that get the puck up ice and support the play.
we would ovbiously have to over pay for him.. hoping he resigns... Give them AA, Girardi, WW, V-Tank,and a 1st
Shea Weber is a Norris finalist and legit world-class player. How many trophy finalist/world-class players do the Rangers have? Lundqvist and...
If this move could be made then serious discussions should take place. The Predators moved Cody Franson (a very solid young d-man) to the Leafs for basically nothing. Two-three roster players, a prospect and a pick is a very fair deal. The only catch would be all these players would probably have to equal Weber's 7.5mil.
of all the rangers here being talked of, the only one i would consider untouchable is stephan. it's interesting to think about all of the different trade possibilities because yeah, let's face it: the rangers are in win-now mode for sure. cap-wise, to fit in weber in a contract after his one year at $7.5 would be damn tricky. either way, hey... it's august and it's fun to talk about this stuff. happy sunday to all.
@IcyCup Especially with all this rain today. Nothing else to do but speculate over possible Rangers trades.
Maybe AA and Wolski with top Prospect but Step and Staal wouldn't be a good idea... Weber is a great defensive player, but you can't get rid of future stars to add a slightly older one. We know what Staal AND Artem have and what they can do for us. I would love to see Weber in a Blueshirt though!!
For everyone against Weber, remember the Rangers bringing in Richards makes them a win now team and Weber instantly makes them that much more of a Stanley Cup threat.
@KevinDeLury Weber also gives them the cornerstone they need to build this great young D our prospects are supposed to become. Weber's physical game much better suits our young players/prospects like Sauer, McD, McIll, Valentenko, MDZ and Pashinin - none of whom seem interested in shying away from contact - then Staal's give up the blueline and pokecheck til the wingers get back style ever will. He's the guy we want these kids to learn from.
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again- can someone please explain why we are talking about needing another defenseman? what happened to everyone loving the state of our defense? the shutdown potential of staal and girardi as they entire their primes for a rental? i thought we were set roster wise, lets get into the season to see how things fall into place....i dont see why we would be talking trading core pieces for a defenseman we dont really need
Trading Staal for Weber makes zero sense. Trading AA who could potentially be a Datsyuk in waiting a few years down the road makes zero sense. Shea Weber is a good player with a promising career but unless we sign him as a UFA, I don't see justifying trading FOR him especially with those kinds of price tags attached.
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@ChrisGibson I'm not really sure what potential scale you're using to grade Anisimov, but he has more potential to be Viktor Kozlov than Datsyuk. The only way he even comes close to being Datsyuk is if turns Innerspace and enters Datsyuk like he was Martin Short.
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@mavanco@ChrisGibson Arty becoming Datsyuk just because he is Russian is like saying Kreider can become Pope because he goes to BC. Saying Weber is a "good player" is like saying Ray Bourque or Al MacInnis were "good" players. If you can bring in the best, you do it.
@ChrisGibson@mavanco@ScottyHockey Chris, you dug yourself a 10 foot hole by mentioning the best dangler in the NHL in the same sentence as Arty Anisimov. He will not be Pavel Datsyuk, and I don't think even Arty himself could argue that point. And you may think you have a handle on player development, but from your comments, you most definitely do NOT have the slightest handle on team building, and player evaluation. Arty Anisimov is a nice player and has the tools to be a top 6 forward on any team in the NHL, but he is replaceable, and there is no arguing that. And if he needs to be a piece in obtaining a Top 3 defenseman in the league, bye-bye bud.
@mavanco@ChrisGibson@ScottyHockey
How can you say you understand player development yet not understand the Richards signing? You make those kinds of comments about guys like Staal or Erixon and they don't even add up. Marc Staal was invited to Team Canada's olympic camp. Marc Staal made the all-star game last year. He plays a truckload of minutes and has played just 4 seasons. Erixon, had he re-entered the draft this season, would have been a top 5 pick. I'd sight what his scouting report has his "potential" listed as, but like Anisimov, it's clear I would just be banging my head against the wall.
You say you understand player development yet have already mapped the careers of players you mentioned before they have even started or have let alone played a single NHL game.
I know Weber is in his prime, you missed my point on that subject for whatever reason.
I'm just going to agree to disagree and move on.
@ChrisGibson@ScottyHockey I understand how player development works and I'm not devaluing Anisimov, but he is not a franchise center. If he was a franchise center then why did Sather have to go out and spend buckets of money on Richards? I think I'm adequately valuing Anisimov. Sure he showed flashes of brilliance, but so did Rico Fata. So did Nigel Dawes.
On account of Dominic Moore, sure he's had a decent career but in no way is he a cornerstone player. He's replaceable. Checking centers that can kill penalties are replaceable players in this current NHL. And Savard is a definition late-bloomer. To say the Rangers made a mistake trading him is that hindsight is 20-20 garbage. That's like saying the Flames should be kicking themselves for giving up on Martin St. Louis.
Would you include Tony Amonte on your list too? Who in his first two seasons posted 30+ goals. Or do we white wash that because he was swapped for Matteau?
You're also talking about Weber like he's 35 and on the tail end of his career. He just turned 26. He's about to enter the prime of his career and is one of the best defenseman in the world right now. Staal, Girardi, Del Zotto, Erixon, McDonagh, Sauer, Valentenko, Kundatrek, McIlrath, Pashin are all fine young defensemen but none of them will be a top 5 defensemen in the NHL. I would even say none of them will win a Norris. Does that mean they aren't good? No. Does that mean I'm devaluing them? No. I'm realistic. They're good, but not great.
Why not take 2 or 3 good defensemen and turn them into one great defenseman?
@mavanco@ChrisGibson@ScottyHockey
Again as I previously stated, I am saying he has potential nothing more. I never stated he will be the next Datsyuk, nor have I said he would be better. He has played a grand total of 2 seasons, Datsyuk has played 9, 10 if you include the lock out year. I'm not saying Artie is the second coming, and this discussion is getting really old because people here want to devalue him when his career JUST started. There is a certain thing called progression. Feel free to see Dominic Moore and Marc Savard if you want to talk about trading away our youth with potential. Talk to me about Datsyuk at the same stage of his career, not his current state, which for some reason people want to use as their argument against me.
Artie's first season was 4th line minutes, his 2nd however was mixed between 3rd and 2nd line minutes that saw the team juggling linemates all season because of injuries left right and center. The moment he became a staple on the 2nd line and was given ice time and steady linemates, his point production lit up. Datsyuk in his second season averaged .29 points more than Anisimov did. That's not a massive amount especially when you consider Detroit's roster that year vs The Ranger roster currently. It's night and day.
People can disagree with me all they want. But I'm not stupid. I know what I'm talking about and have no problems defending my stance with facts rather than 1 line zingers.
And again trading away our youth and developing players for instant success potential is the worst strategy in this day and age of salary cap hockey. Dismanting for 1 piece is beyond illogical. I'm actually surprised I have to defend myself on this. Do the names Moore and Savard not ring a bell to anyone? Seriously this is a laughable conversation in my book.
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Lemme jump in and say that Anisimov has only two full years under his belt and can soon be a threat. This year I think he's going to turn a lot of heads. No one is Datsyuk, that's for sure. Anisimov can and will be a very good player in his own right, and is a very important piece of the Rangers going forward. Is he tradable? Yes. But the kid is still very young and should be given a couple more years.
@ChrisGibson@ScottyHockey I'm sorry and I do not intend for this come off as a flame, but there is no realistic world where Anisimov will be better than or equal to Datsyuk. Or even 3/4 of the player Datsyuk is. He is one of the top 5 centers in the league and a perennial Selke trophy candidate. Not to mention he has been nearly a point-per-game player his whole career and guaranteed first-ballot Hall of Famer.
Anisimov at best will be a serviceable second-line center and perennial Steven McDonald Extra Effort Award candidate. If he has to be a part of a package for a player of the ilk that is Shea Weber, he must go. Anisimov can be replaced. Easily.
@ScottyHockey@mavanco@ChrisGibson
Anisimov is a two way forward. He has gifted hands good vision and is finding his scoring touch. He keeps getting better and better and has only played two seasons. There is a difference between potential and reaching it and I do believe I used the word "potential". And I'm not stating my opinion based on him just being Russian either. They have a similar game, the difference of course being experience. The other difference is that Anisimov is 5 inches taller. Big players with good hands and can play a two way game are a hot commodity in today's NHL.My point is this mainly. I am not a fan of breaking down our roster for the sake of bringing in 1 player. especially when that roster was developed from within. Let the players we developed, develop. Let them reach their potential. I mean, haven't we been down this road before? It's like people don't learn from the past yet want to repeat it because on paper it looks good. We have more cap space to work with after this season and our principles are locked in for a good few years. We need to fill in the missing pieces WITHOUT extracting. Not creating further gaps.
And the idea of bringing in someone like Weber to "teach" is beyond a waste of his good years and talents.
Really? You would give up our homegrown allstar (Staal) for some rental player? Pshhh, I wouldn't even have a conversation about doing that.
@CJ Weber isn't a "rental player", Nashville just isn't in a market where they are comfortable committing to a long term contract at over 7 mil per. That's not a problem with us. Also, some think Weber isn't sold on Nashville, and their commitment to putting a contender on the ice. Obviously, any trade with Nashville is contingent with them letting us talk to Weber and lay out his extension. As far as Staal being a "home grown allstar", he made one all star game, and it's when it was in his brothers hometown. Weber has appeared in multiple All Star games AND has a gold medal. His credentials blow Staal's away.
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Girardi, a No. 1, Pavs, ww maybe? Have to throw in a forward Im just not sure who (girardi immediatly fills the shut down d-man void and pavs will take over the offensive side if he develops correctly.
@ChrisP That wouldn't be enough. If I'm the Preds i don't want Wolski, and you have very very little talent/potential in this proposal. And I don't mean this as an attack against you or Girardi, but don't fool yourself into thinking he's a 'Shut-Down' Defenseman. He is a very solid 2nd pairing defenseman, who happens to be very underrated because he does all the little things, and plays with Staal. Girardi may fit with the Preds (right-handed shot) and I think would benefit from playing with a very talented and overshadowed Ryan Suter, but he goes to Nashville as a piece of the puzzle and a cap hit relief so the Rangers can afford Weber. He is by no means a centerpiece of any deal.
@AndyS O yea I agree but hes a must go. I keep Staal send dan, a #1 pavs and thats 3 really good things right there plus we would have to add a talented forward maybe ww and haglin? I mean Think about it that #1 pick and pavs alone could turn out to be a great deal but the reason you give other is because a pick and pavs are no where close to proven while webewr is so you throw in dan and a winger, and maybe another prospect but I wouldn't give up thomas or krieder
AA, Girardi, a 1st and Nashville's choice of Thomas, Hagelin or Bourque. I think that's what I takes to get him, and I personally pull that trigger in a heartbeat.
@AndyS I dont give them thomas. I give Girardi, a 1st round pick, haglin and pavs and maybe ww? i dont like giving up AA . Give up Pavs there is no reason to keep him with weber
@AndyS Exactly what I was thinking. Have to dump salary so Staal or Girardi would have to be part of the package. And this trade still favors the Rangers too much. Nashville walks away. But Glen has pulled miracles before.
@InFlamesNYR Since our Top 4 would be locked in for a few years, if not longer, I'd also let them take Valentenko or Kundratek as another piece, if Polie needed just a bit more.
Staal? What? No! He's our next leetch just a notch less offense. He'll have the incentive of being a star franchise player. Weber would come in making Glen Sather Contract money, be coming from Nashville to live on NYC. Can't see him fitting right in.
But seriously, to get one of the top three defensemen in the league it would take a helluva lot more than just one of those players and a pick to land him. If Weber is truly on the market, I do whatever it takes to get him. Only untouchable would be Hank.
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@ScottyHockey Exactly, as much as I like guys like Dubi, Callahan; the only true untouchable on this team is Lundqvist. You should only be untouchable if you are the best in the league at your position and Hank is arguably that. I would trade any player on this roster plus a 1st rounder (except Lundqvist) for Weber. It's an easy decision. But, I think this is a moot point b/c there's no way NY gets Weber
I can name a few more "Untouchables"
Cally
Dubi
Hank
All of our newly acquired talents
And personally I say Steppan would be untouchable for me...
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Anisimov, a #1, and a prospect and I would do it in a heartbeat. Staal, despite everyone being down on him, is a legit shut-down defenseman. Stepan is the future captain of this team. So no way on those 2.
